Do Brazilians consider themselves "Hispanics"? Or should we use the term 'Latinos'? Should we be NSLP instead of NSHP? We didn't intend to exclude Brazilians!
No, we don't, due to the definition of Hispanic. We do, however, consider ourselves "Latinoamericanos" as it refers to the region we come from, not our ethnicity.
Latinos is a much more preferred term and is more inviting to Brazilians.
I'm a Spanish/English speaking Brazilian passionate about this topic. I even wrote an article about it which is posted on www.arrepiabrasil.org
So yes, we would be very grateful if the term Hispanic was just eliminated.
Curiously, some websites are completely eliminating Brazilians from their definition of the Hispanic Category. Check out for example, www.mellon.com/careers. A Brazilian submitting a resume there finds no appropriate category other than "white."
I wish labels were not necessary. My dream is to see us living as one world.
Don't believe in cultural reductions or stereotypes. Theorically all the people living in the Americas are "americans" but in the real life, worldwidely, "americans" are the US people. Theorically Senegalese (french), Mozambicans (portuguese), Frenchs, Brazilians, Romanians, Haitians (french), Angolans (portuguese), Italians - etc, etc - are all "latins" because they speak a language derived from Latin but in the real life is the hispanic people who is known as "latinos". According to the false and forced "Latin America" concept, all the nations speak latin languages "inside" but in the reality Suriname speak Dutch, Jamaica and other little nations speak English or Dutch, non-latin languages. Geographically Mexico is in North America but nobody calls Mexicans as "north-americans".
"Latin America" was a pseudo geo-politic concept created to separate the white (today not so white) and rich America (US and Canadá) from the "rest", the poor and not so white America. It's a concept based in prejudice.
Brazilians are not "latinos" and never saw themselves as "latinos". Here is very common to refer to hispanics like "the latinos", automathically excluding us. It's not that we depreciate them. Brazilians are not better or worst than any people, we all know the many problems of Brazil. It's natural. Brazilian people always saw themselves like just Brazilians. To us, Hispanics are so foreigners as Americans or Canadians. Brazilians don't understand Spanish and Hispanics don't understand Portuguese. It's necessary to learn them, like English, French, etc. Of course, Brazil is south-american, geographically.
Brazil is other America, is the Lusophone America, that speak Portuguese. Brazil had other colonial heritage (only from Portugal, not Spain), have other culture, other racial/ethnic mix, other social composition, other idiossincracies, other soul and styles. The majority of Brazilians (I guess something like 80%/85%) are mixed from Portugueses + Brazil's original indigenous + Black (from Africa). The rest of immigrants were basically Italians, Germans (in South), Arabs, Dutch (Holland invasion in Northeast), Japanese. The Spaniard immigrants weren't so relevant like Italians, Germans or Arabs. Obvious: Spaniards prefered to immigrate to hispanic countries. Culturally we have a big influence from Ocidental Africa, mainly from the area known today as Angola and Nigeria.
I don't know why some hispanics become "offended" when they see Brazil or Brazilians are not like they "imagined". Probably is a inferiority complex. It's curious, because, very probably, they never visited Brazil. They have the same stereotyped vision of Brazilian culture and people like the Anglophones. Don't worry. Hispanics don't need Brazilians. You have your culture and own qualities. Hispanics have big cultural intersections between themselves, the Spanish language and the Spanish colonial heritage.
The Brazil's intersections are with Portugal, Angola, Mozambique.. . the lusophones.
I wish all of us would assign less importance to labels and more importance to content and substance.
In Brazil, Brazilians (it seems to me) pay far more attention to the US than to any of their neighbors. You are correct; in their own country they are most unlikely to call themselves Hispanic.
Historically and culturally, Brazilians and (other?) non-Luso Hispanics have much in common in their heritage. But there are significant differences, too. The great Spanish epic (and heroic) poem is El Cid Campeador; it is full of armed struggle with the Moors: blood, decapitated heads rolling in the sand . . . In contrast, the great Lusitanian (Portuguese) epic poem is Os Lusíadas, about a brave, daring people in service to their Lady, Venus, the goddess of love. For their service, the crew of Vasco da Gama, representing the Portuguese nation, is rewarded on the Isle of Love.
Major differences, sim, senhor! Vive la différence!
I am new to this forum but I couldn't help but to hit the reply bottom when I saw this question, actually questions the Editor has initially made.
First of all, as far as I know, most Brazilians, educated or not, would not consider themselves Hispanics because they relate this to be inherent of Spanish speaking people, from Spain or not.
If all Brazilians feel this way, I can't, obviously, tell for sure. I would think this is a common belief taking it from the opinion of many Brazilians I know and my own opinion, of course. However...
... it could be possible that we, Brazilians, consider ourselves Hispanic when, for instance, trying to RSVP and participate in a bilingual event promoted by NSHP. We would purposely include ourselves and be a member of a Hispanic site for convenience and will not be upset or ask to change the name just because the title excludes Portuguese speakers.
I guess there could be other examples where we could pass as Hispanic for lack of options. In my case, however, I can't say I have this issue as I am of Hispanic origin since my parents are from a Spanish speaking country and not I have only double citizenship, but also speak Spanish fluently.
So as you can see this term would apply to me, but what if I did not have a second citizenship and/or Hispanic ethnicity? Well, in this case I would rather fit into a broader definition than in a doubtful one, meaning NSLP will be far more appropriate.
In fact, if NSHP changed to NSLP that would possible include Italian and French speakers. I think it will be less focused to people who spoke Spanish but they still will be the majority without leaving others feeling "left-out".
It is truth that people want to be understood for what they are, Brazilians as Brazilians, Mexicans as Mexicans, Colombians as Colombians, French as French, Portuguese as Portuguese, etc. but if we are trying to create opportunity for bilinguals who speak Spanish and Portuguese you can't qualify them in base of national origin but on language. Since Portuguese and Spanish are different languages a common denominator would be Latin and by doing so will also create opportunity to include other Latin languages.
If you want to keep this as an exclusive Hispanic site open to Brazilians that's fine but think that these Brazilian coming here are more likely NOT considering themselves Hispanics; they are simply taking advantage of the inclusion of opportunities for Portuguese speakers, if they find out this is not only for Spanish speaking people.
I am 100% to change the name to NSLP because this, consciously or not, does exclude Brazilian and other Portuguese speakers. I know you didn't mean for that to happen but you should know it does, otherwise you would not have post these questions and received so many comments. ;)
If you ask me, people these days are too hung up on titles and labels. If you are asking Brazilians whether we consider ourselves Hispanic I have to somewhat agree with the previous posting. You can argue both ways. You can use the label to your advantage in order to be included or excluded. I think that if you are not Brazilian then you have to respect the individual you are talking to, if he is Brazilian and considers himself Hispanic then it is not your place to tell him he is not Hispanic and vice versa.
There are so many variables and there is not one universal definition of the word Hispanic. In Chicago, most of the Brazilians that I have met do consider themselves Hispanic. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that, in Chicago, Brazilians tend to live in the same areas and associate with Spanish speakers. We share a lot of cultural similarities with Spanish speakers. We share a lot of the same foods. Our languages are extremely close although in my experience it's much easier for a Portuguese speaker to understand Spanish than the reverse.
I think the biggest link is that we come from the same ancestry.....Iberian European ancestors who came over during colonial times and intermixed with Indians and Africans. DNA ancestry testing has shown that Brazilians have a similar genetic makeup to Colombians, Puerto Ricans, and other Spanish speaking nations. Thus, we look pretty similar to our Spanish speaking cousins. Also, our surnames are almost identical except for a letter or two, or in some cases, completely the same as Spanish surnames. Many organizations classify people as Hispanic strictly by their surname.
I should also add that many "Hispanic" organizations often include Portuguese speakers. There are Spanish language magazines with articles in Portuguese. Many Spanish websites such as dating services or chat rooms have both Spanish and Portuguese versions. And Portuguese speakers often appear on Spanish game shows like "Sabado Gigante" out of Miami. And I think because of a similar affinity between Spain and Portugal, many people from Portugal consider themselves Hispanic. I have two such friends.
I should add that I am speaking as a Brazilian in the United States. I don't think anyone considers himself Hispanic in Portugal or Brazil. Race, origin and ethnicity are viewed differently in different countries. But that's the case with many labels. For example, if your grandparents were Polish then you probably tell people that you are Polish. But if you are vacationing in France, you would probably say that you are an American.
My opinion....why let language prevent people with similar history, ancestry and culture from being united. We can accomplish so much more together.
Spent a few months in Brazil and I never got the impression that Brazilians have any particular affinity with their Spanish-speaking neighbors. No animosity, either, but there was a definite sense that their culture, while broad (it's a big country), was distinct. In Salvador da Bahia, it didn't appear to me that the Argentinian tourists were any less foreign than I was.
One of the more interesting impressions I got was that Brazilians are as culturally self-sufficient (I'll call it inward-looking) as Americans. Both Brazil and the US seem to borrow freely from everyone and then modify whatever they like and make it their own. (I have no experience in other Latin American countries, so this situation may there, as well.)
From this, as an "Anglo-American" it would seem quite odd to refer to Brazilians as Hispanics or even Latinos because of the cultural and political implications. The US is very big on categorization, and one of the reasons for this is that it defines political interests and power. As a point of comparison, there are quite a few African Americans saying Senator Obama is not "black" or "African American" because he doesn't have the same slave-derived history. Interestingly, the fact that he is half-white seems less of an issue.
Further on categorization, some people on this thread have brought up race and ethnicity. Clearly, this is a difficult area. The US Government has two categories: race and ethnicity, and the only "ethnicity" they usually gather data on is "Hispanic or Non-Hispanic." How Brazilians would respond to this question on a form or whatever I don't know. From a cultural/linguistic perspective, they may say "non-Hispanic," but if the question is taken from a political perspective, some Brazilians may consider their interests closely aligned with those of Latinos/Hispanics and therefore declare themselves "Hispanic."
Brazilians are Latinos (as are the French, Italians, Portuguese, aka Brazilians, etc) but not Hispanic. Hispanic coming from the Latin word for Spain, (Hispania) means that the latins who originate from Spain, (as opposed to other Latins) are HISPANIC.
The time may never come when there is a common definition of the therm "Hispanic," because it is too often applied to a nationality, not to the cultures that make up the Iberian peninsula.
The Romans called the entire peninsula "Hispania." The nation we call Spain is itself made up of several cultures with different histories and languages--most of them now extinct. Some still thrive: Catalan, Galician, and Basque. Even the language we call Spanish names a nationality; the name of the language is Castilian.
Portugal is part of ancient Hispania. That it is now independent of Spain does not negate the heritage it shares with the other cultures that make up Iberia.
It is true that Brazilians, like most people, think of Spanish-speaking peoples when they hear the term "hispano." But, in a richer, deeper, historical sense, they are indeed Hispanic. Perhaps the term Luso-Hispanic would distinguish their cultural heritage. It would be far more difficult to identify the other cultures of Spain with specific countries (as the Portuguese are identified with Brazil) because none of the sub-cultures of Spain--Galicians, Asturians, Leonese, Catalans, Basques, etc.--left their descendents predominantly in one country.
But are Brazilians Hispanic? I would say that they are far more Hispanic than are many (perhaps most) US "Hispanics" who, though having Hispanic ancestors, were born in the US, have learned Spanish poorly, and share in the common customs and history of Iberia far less than Brazilians do.
You should learn more on the history of Iberia. Early Romans always called it Iberia and that same Iberia was divided in different colonies: Lusitania (where Portugal is today), Hispania (Spain today) which later was divided into Galicia, Baetica... and so on. I am sorry man but Portugal (ancient Lusitania) was always part of Iberia not Hispania. I know you are trying to make Brazil and Portugal hispanics nations but they are not. Doing that you are denying the LUSOPHONE language and culture. Both are countries are LUSOPHONE (Lusófonos). How can you talk about that if you don't know anything on Brazilian and Portuguese history and language?
In Geography and History we call Brazil LUSOPHONE AMERICA like we do with the USA and Canada when we call them Anglo America. All the Spanish speaking countries we call them HISPANIC AMERICA. The one speaks French we call FRANCO AMERICA. Your note shows in a very nasty and prepotent way that you are trying very hard to make Portugal and brazil part of the Hispanic world, but I am sorry you are completly wrong about that. We are proud of our language and culture and we are also proud to belong to the LUSOPHONE world. We have our own community and our own language academy. Of the Hispanic world the only thing is closest to us is Galicia, because the Galician dialect and the Galician culture is very close to Portuguese culture and language.
Concluding Brazilians have nothing to do with Hispanic culture or language (only the Latin connection from ROME). Brazil in reality has a very unique culture that for sure is deeply connect to Portugal. Homero finishing my comment remember BRAZIL is parte of the LUSOPHONE world and nothing you can do about it.
We Brazilians should continue making stronger our LUSOPHONE culture in Brazil and Portugal and also out there. By the way Portuguese is today the number six language by number of speakers in the world.
While you should verify your facts (start by looking Hispania and Iberia up in Wikipedia), your language is far more civil. Your assertions, however, are not facts unless you can back them up.
A common heritage does in fact make for kinships. Study the history of Hispania from the time of the Roman invasion. Then we can talk about cultures in a more informed manner.
I am astounded by the emotional, anti-intellectual responses to my posting. Their tenor recalls that of the "conservative" Republicans of the US: they are based on anger and arrogance. In all sincerity, I had not expected anything of the sort when I made my original posting.
Futhermore, the responses go far astray of the point I was making, which was that Americans born and reared in the US often have at least one parent of Hispanic (here I mean non-Lusitanian) ancestry. Although they know little about Hispanic culture, history, customs, and language, they call themselves "Hispanic." I contend that the Portuguese and Brazilians both have more in common with Spaniards of all cultures than do most of the "Hispanic" Americans of the US.
That was all.
Now I have to ask whether I understand the assertions. Do those assertions mean that the peoples of Iberia have a lot in common only if they make up part of Spain and little in common with other Iberian peoples if they are Portuguese?
Ora, meu chapa, se você for mesmo brasileiro, fico contente ao observar que meus 40+ anos de convivência com o povão do Brasil desmente o disrespeito e grosseiria que você manifesta em sua resposta. Palavra, a arrogância não constitui prerequisito ao desacordo!
Some of your facts are simply incorrect. The Romans did in fact call the entire peninusula Hispania; the Greeks called it Iberia (see Wikipedia.org). Where did you get your facts? Please cite the source.
And, yes, Roman Hispania has consisted of many cultures and languages, the Basque predating the Roman invasion. Are you still unaware of the Catalans, the Basques, and the Galicians who even today preserve their own cultures and languages?
Spain and Hispanic today reference a nation, not an ethnicity. And, yes, over 2000 years, Portugal has in fact shared much of the history that Catalonia, Galicia, Andalucia, Castille, Asturias, etc., have all shared. And, yes, Brazilians--as a consequence of their Lusitanian heritage--have far more in common linguistically and culturally with their Iberian counterparts than do Spanish-surnamed, American-born and reared citizens who call themselves Hispanic even though they speak poor Spanish--if any at all.
If you can reply civilly and with respect, I shall look forward to hearing from you.
Wikipedia is not a source you can trust. The ACADEMIC world doesn't accept information from WIKIPEDIA. I am sorry but I am not being nasty with anyone I was just giving my point of view. Nasty was this guy name Homero who has very incorrect information inside his notes. You should ask him to cite his sources too. Would be fair don't you think so??? I felt through your words your anger and your defense toward the Spanish speaking world. I am not being nasty with the Spanish speaking community. In reality I was just expressing my point of view through my knowledge on the subject. I am not Brazilian I am Portuguese but I have relative in Brazil that thinks the same way I think. I am sorry if I did hurt your feelings. Your are part hispanic? Married with someone that is hispanic? Or you are just being nasty with me? Man I know what I am talking about. Come to my office and I will show you all the sources I have and you will agree with me.
Ora, meu chapa, se você for mesmo brasileiro, fico contente ao observar que meus 40+ anos de convivência com o povão do Brasil desmente o disrespeito e grosseiria que você manifesta em sua resposta. Palavra, a arrogância não constitui prerequisito ao desacordo!
Some of your facts are simply incorrect. The Romans did in fact call the entire peninusula Hispania; the Greeks called it Iberia (see Wikipedia.org). Where did you get your facts? Please cite the source.
And, yes, Roman Hispania has consisted of many cultures and languages, the Basque predating the Roman invasion. Are you still unaware of the Catalans, the Basques, and the Galicians who even today preserve their own cultures and languages?
Spain and Hispanic today reference a nation, not an ethnicity. And, yes, over 2000 years, Portugal has in fact shared much of the history that Catalonia, Galicia, Andalucia, Castille, Asturias, etc., have all shared. And, yes, Brazilians--as a consequence of their Lusitanian heritage--have far more in common linguistically and culturally with their Iberian counterparts than do Spanish-surnamed, American-born and reared citizens who call themselves Hispanic even though they speak poor Spanish--if any at all.
If you can reply civilly and with respect, I shall look forward to hearing from you.
The term LUSO-HISPANIC is the most stupid and uneducated thing I heard in my entire life. This term is OFFENSIVE and DISGRACEFUL for Brazilian and Portuguese people. As a professor of History and Geography that hurt my ears.You could call a Portuguese speaker a LUSO-IBERIAN or a Spanish sperak HISPANIC-IBERIAN but LUSO-HISPANIC is the stupidiest thing I heard in my life. Man you should be proud of you Hispanic culture and stop trying to infuse your culture and pride into our LUSOPHONE culture. LUSOPHONE culture and language are here for little over 1000 years and your stupid innacurate comment will NOT change it. Again the Romans used to call where Portugal is today LUSITANIA this is why the term LUSOPHONE (Lusófono) for the speakers of Portuguese and they culture. I can't stand stupidity and a imperialistic prepotence. THE TERM USED TO DEFINE PORTUGAL AND BRAZIL IS LUSO-BRAZILIAN (Luso-Brasileiro). Learn more about IBERIA and also more on Brazil, Portugal and LUSOPHONE world. Contact me if you want to talk about it.
You should learn more on the history of Iberia. Early Romans always called it Iberia and that same Iberia was divided in different colonies: Lusitania (where Portugal is today), Hispania (Spain today) which later was divided into Galicia, Baetica... and so on. I am sorry man but Portugal (ancient Lusitania) was always part of Iberia not Hispania. I know you are trying to make Brazil and Portugal hispanics nations but they are not. Doing that you are denying the LUSOPHONE language and culture. Both are countries are LUSOPHONE (Lusófonos). How can you talk about that if you don't know anything on Brazilian and Portuguese history and language?
In Geography and History we call Brazil LUSOPHONE AMERICA like we do with the USA and Canada when we call them Anglo America. All the Spanish speaking countries we call them HISPANIC AMERICA. The one speaks French we call FRANCO AMERICA. Your note shows in a very nasty and prepotent way that you are trying very hard to make Portugal and brazil part of the Hispanic world, but I am sorry you are completly wrong about that. We are proud of our language and culture and we are also proud to belong to the LUSOPHONE world. We have our own community and our own language academy. Of the Hispanic world the only thing is closest to us is Galicia, because the Galician dialect and the Galician culture is very close to Portuguese culture and language.
Concluding Brazilians have nothing to do with Hispanic culture or language (only the Latin connection from ROME). Brazil in reality has a very unique culture that for sure is deeply connect to Portugal. Homero finishing my comment remember BRAZIL is parte of the LUSOPHONE world and nothing you can do about it.
We Brazilians should continue making stronger our LUSOPHONE culture in Brazil and Portugal and also out there. By the way Portuguese is today the number six language by number of speakers in the world.
I'm Brazilian and i feel the term Hispanic does not include my country as a whole......We are in fact Lusophone not Hispanic.However when it comes to peoples origins,it can sometimes refer to Brazilians as well.Because quiet a lot of Brazilians are of direct Spanish background.Taking me 4 example I'm a Brazilian of Portuguese and Spanish descent...and i do consider myself Hispanic,Lusophone and Latin/latino. 4 me that only makes sense becuase thats my origins.
whoever says brazilians arent portuguese is well sadly mistaken.Up to 90% of brazilians are of full or partial portuguese descent.Personally im proud to be a brazilian of at least some of this descent and im also very proud of my spanish origins as well.
Brazilians are definatly latinos...this terms is not only 4 spanish speakers and desecenders but it includes any1 in the americas of Portuguese,Spanish,Italian,French n romanian roots.Besides the fact that most brazilians are full or partly portuguese there are large proportions of Spanish and Italian descenders as well-All of them latin peoples.....so therefore we are latinos. What i would like is just for all latin americans to see that we maybe of different types of latins but at the end of the day we are all 1 big family.
The terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" within the USA are conflicting. On the one hand they empower Spanish-speaking communities such as Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Cubans, but on the other hand, they grossly oversimplify Latin America and "racialize" Latin Americans.
Not all Latin American surnames are "Spanish surnames" nor do they end in "ez", (i.e.; Martinez, Lopez) particularly in Brazil. Here are a few examples of surnames of some of the several Brazilian presidents in the past 40 years, who do not have "Spanish surnames" nor do there surnames end in "ez": Kubitchek, Medici, Geisel, Sarney, Collor. In addition, here are some other examples of surnames of presidents from Spanish-speaking Latin American countries that also do not end in "ez" nor do they have "Spanish surnames": Stroessner, Fujimori, Menem, Pinochet, Fox, Kirschner.
A number of the diverse populations who migrated to Brazil include: Portugal, Italy, Poland, France, Germany, Lebanon, Syria, Japan, Russia, Austria, Turkey all of which are disengaged on several levels; medically, culturally, and ethnically from the "Hispanic-Latino" paradigms.
The Brazilian Immigrant Center (Centro Imigrante Brasileiro), in Allston, Massachusetts, was founded in 1995, and serves as a centralized office for Brazilian worker's rights, as well as a general information guide to new Brazilian immigrants. According to the founder and director of the Center, Fausto Mendes da Rocha, the Brazilian population in Massachusetts is calculated by estimating the number of Brazilians in church membership, attendance and services, Brazilian businesses, the telephone and e-mail inquiries received by the Immigrant Center in Allston, and the number of Brazilian newspapers in Massachusetts.
Rocha estimates that there are approximately 231,000 Brazilians living in Massachusetts in 2003, and approximately 1.2 million Brazilians living in the entire USA. These figures are higher to the unrealistically low US Census 2000 figures of 212,428 Brazilians living in the entire USA, and of 36,669 Brazilians living in Massachusetts. The estimated figures of 784,000 Brazilians living in the entire USA, and 200,000 in Massachusetts, from the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs are likely to represent more realistic figures.
The Brazilian population, according to Rocha, has changed since the 1990's, from a transitory one to a more stable and permanent one. This is because, according to him, during the 1990's, Brazilians were working for a year or two and then returning to Brazil, and now, he has noticed a large increase in the number of Brazilian home-ownerships as well as business-ownerships in the past four years, also indicating that Brazilians are no longer returning to Brazil.
According to an article ("O Eldorado Brilha Menos"—The Eldorado Shines Less), written by Eduardo Salgordo on January 16, 2002, in the Brazilian magazine Veja, there are an estimated 800,000 Brazilians living in the USA and 17,000 Brazilians living in Framingham, MA. These population figures for Framingham, MA, are also in accordance with the estimate figures given by The Brazilian Immigrant Center in Allston, MA.
The US Census does not list Brazilians as part of their breakdown of South Americans of "Hispanic" or "Latino" origin living in Massachusetts.
In 2003, the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has estimated that about 100,000 Brazilians leave Brazil per year, and about one-third of the 2 million Brazilians living abroad are illegal residents (Brazilian Times, Massachusetts, By Paulo Torrens, Aug. 15, 2003).
The studies of anthropologist Maxine Margolis (1998) "An Invisible Minority: Brazilians in New York City" point that in 1996 there was an estimated figure of over 600,000 Brazilians living in the entire USA. The official US Census 1990, estimated that there were 94,087 Brazilians living in the USA. According to Margolis, this figure was severely undercounted and the Brazilian population figures ought to be at least eighty percent higher. This undercount is attributed to several reasons, primarily because of the large unaccountability of undocumented Brazilians, who overstay their tourist visas to continue working in the USA, and fear that revealing any information will result in detection.
Another reason for the undercount, according to Margolis, is the confusion concerning the Census forms, since Brazilians are not Spanish-speaking Latin Americans and hence cannot and do not call themselves "Hispanic", they end up checking other options appears that if Brazilians are not counted, then in effect, they don't exist. For this reason, Margolis has called them the "invisible minority".
Problem of Terminology
The confusing terminology used by the US Census Bureau that give contextual life to a "Hispanic Population", that is, the term semantically migrates from the realm of the "imaginary" to the realm of "reality". Given the confusing semantic context of the interchangeable terms "Spanish", "Hispanic" and "Latino", as seen in US Census 2000, Brazilians mark the "No" box as instructed (i.e., "Mark the No box if not Spanish/Hispanic/Latino").
The US census in 1970 was the first to include a separate question specifically on "Hispanic origin". The term "Latino" appeared on the census form for the first time in 2000. The 1980 and 1990 censuses asked people if they were of "Spanish/Hispanic origin or descent" and then, to choose "Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, or other Spanish/Hispanic". A review of such ethnic categories would indicate the need for addressing a problem in order to establish the accurate count of Brazilian populations living in the USA. The misguided semantic problem, based on misinformation on Brazilian ethnic identities and complexities, is that Spanish language or ancestry, "Hispanic" and "Latino" are interchangeable.
"The terms "Spanish," "Hispanic origin," and "Latino" are used interchangeably. Some respondents identify with all three terms while others may identify with only one of these three specific terms."
Source: US Department of Commerce, US Census Bureau 2000, "Massachusetts: 2000 Summary Population and Housing Characteristics", Page B-8, Issued 2002: http://www.census.gov/prod/www/abs/briefs.html
The manifestations of the interchangeable terms "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" give life to the perpetuation of Latin American inaccuracies, stereotypes, and ascriptions particularly dissimilar to Brazilians.
The exclusion of Brazilians within the "Hispanic" and "Latino" paradigms in the US occurs for several reasons and in various ways. Firstly, Brazilians are not actively integrated or engaged within the US "Hispanic" or "Latino" political process, nor are they part of the significant US Spanish-speaking public discourse. Secondly, from a geo-political perspective, Brazil is further away from the US than countries such as Mexico, Puerto Rico, or Cuba; and in addition, the former three countries have shared a longer historical and political relationship with the US than Brazil. Thirdly, Brazilians are distinctly dissimilar from other Latin Americans within many dimensions (i.e., linguistically, culturally, historically, ethnically).
The Portuguese language spoken in Brazil, Brazilian ethnicity, and Brazilian culture are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino". The Jeitinho Brasileiro ("The Brazilian way"), the Jogo Bonito ("The Beautiful Game", a Brazilian reference to Brazilian-style soccer) and Samba (Unique Brazilian Samba music), are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino". In addition, the Brazilian raison d'être is devoid of any relationship within the "Hispanic-Latino" paradigms.
In a sense, "Hispanic" and "Latino" have inaccurately "racialized" all Latin Americans, and have thus "latinamericanized" all of Latin America monolithically and homogenously.
The implication is that there is an illusory "Hispanic" or "Latino" "race" or that there is a single imaginary country where "Hispanics" and "Latinos" come from, and of course, neither is true.
*Alan P. Marcus (Master's of Science in Geography in progress) is a Brazilian living in the USA. He has also written other articles on Brazilian issues on identity, "race", ethnicity, and animal ethics for Brazzil magazine.
Sou Brasileiro, e muito me impressiona essa discussão que toma espaço nesse sítio.
Antes de qualquer coisa, desejo justificar o fato de preferir me expressar em português, língua falada em todo o território brasileiro. Sou professor de Língua Portuguesa, Literatura Brasileira e Inglesa, História e Estudos Sociais, e só isso seria motivo suficiente para que eu me utilize desse idioma, mas além disso há o fato de que se está discutindo sobre o Brasil e sobre a língua falada no Brasil.
Os brasileiros deveriam ser reconhecidos nos Estados Unidos e em qualquer outro lugar do mundo, simplesmente como brasileiros. As denominações, Latinos e Hispânicos são completamente equivocadas, pois trazem nelas a tentativa de classificar as pessoas dentro da sociedade em que vivem. Uma classificação hierárquica, carregada de preconceito, que leva a tratamentos diferenciados por parte dos nativos da terra (os estadunidenses) que são o grupo que criou os termos aqui discutidos. Em nenhum país latino-americano essa discussão seria cabida. Imaginem brasileiros se tratando como latinos uns aos outros, situação impensada.
Acredito que nós, oriundos de todos os países latino-americanos deveríamos instruir todos que utilizam esses termos. Não podemos deixá-los vivendo na ignorância em que vivem, desconhecendo tudo que está fora de suas fronteiras. Um bom conselho que podemos dar é para que viagem mais, conheçam outros países e outras culturas e aprendam a conviver com as diferenças, que são muitas em toda a América Latina.
Brasileiros são Brasileiros, Mexicanos são Mexicanos, Argentinos são Argentinos, Colombianos são Colombianos e assim por diante. De outra forma teremos que chamar os estadunidenses de anglos ou Britches, coisa que eles não gostariam muito.
No mais é bom saber: o Brasil foi colonizado por portugueses. A península ibérica foi formada da união e divisão sucessiva de pele menos sete reinos distintos, ecorrendo após a queda do império romano, por volta do ano 400 da nossa Era: Reino de Navarra, Reino de Aragão, Reino de Catela, Reino de Leão, Reino das Astúrias, Reino da Galiza, Reino de Portugal. Como se vê, o nome Portugal é pelo menos 600 anos mais velho do que o nome Espanha, que só foi utilizado com a união dos reinos de Castela e Leão.
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am. try typing "hispania" in google images and tell me what comes out.... do we use the term hispanic wrong? I think soo...
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am. try typing "hispania" in google images and tell me what comes out.... do we use the term hispanic wrong? I think soo...
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am. try typing "hispania" in google images and tell me what comes out.... do we use the term hispanic wrong? I think soo...
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am.
Brazilians speak portuguese, not spanish. Brazil is in South America and brazilians derive their language and culture from Portugal.
Latin america is not all necessarily all spanish speaking, so to answer your question, you can have a LATIN association, in addition to a HISPANIC association, but don't change it.
It's prejudicial to analyse all the "latin" countries as they all are the same. Very big mistake and result of despise.
It's a reducionismo. The "region" is very wide, it's impossible to analyse it as if it would be a entire and homogeneous "piece".
"Latin America" is a imposed stereotype for the nations beyond the USA board, fruit of the ignorance of developed countries which have an oversimplified conception about them.
"Latin America" is a geographical concept created only to separated USA (and Canada) from the "rest", in the Americas.
And It's erroneous because not every countries in it speak a latin-derived language. For example, Suriname speak dutch, Jamaica
(english), Bahamas (english) etc.
In this context Brazil is practically a region apart. Continental and the unique country that always spoke Portuguese (and not Spanish as some "developed" ignorants think) Brazil is culturally, economically and politically very diferent of Hispanic and others countries of "Latin America".
Economically Brazil is more linked with countries of other continents than its neighbours in South America. Politically is very different -- today it shows a leftist color but in the true is a centrist government -- and the Brazilian political issues are very peculiar and endogenous, nothing to do with Venezuela, Argentina or Mexico politics. Culturally is a world apart: racial mix, social behaviour, music, literature, folklore, cinema, culinary, fashion, even the ethnic type (you can identify a Brazilian just visually), etc, is very distinct from the stereotypical "latin" country concept. It's hard to compare Brazil with a Mexico or Argentina, for example.
Certainly even the Hispanic countries are very different between them.
It's not because there are poverty, corruption, illiteracy or urban violence that countries are the same. Remember: those are characteristc of all poor nations, in Asia, África or Eastern Europe, not only in "Latin America".
So to put all the nations beyond USA board in the same box is prejudicial and a misinformation.
first of all portugese is a latin language, second, portugal was once from spain, and portugese is a derivative from a spainish language, galician, therefore, there might be luso... whatever, but they are still latin americans
Portugal never was a "territory" of Spain. By the contrary, the Portugueses were a big power during the Era of Discovery.
Very lie: the Portuguese never was "derivative" from spanish. Both languages were developed on the same time. They have some similarity because the proximity of both countries. Only this. It's a spain's region, Galícia, that speak a language derivative of Portuguese.
Spain, of course, reject the galego as a dialect of Portuguese. Political reasons... If Spain admit it Galícia might want to get out. But cientiffically the Galícia's language is considered a dialect variant form Portuguese.
I don't know why many hispanics have this "thing" when Brazilians say they are not hispanics. Porra! Brazilians never was hispanics, we NEVER spoke Spanish!
(*That blablabla of "hispânia" is a fraud, intellectually dishonest. Greece, Germany, slavic people, etc, were integrants of the Roman Empire (which spoke latin) but they were not and are not "latinos" or Romans.)
It seems a very big inferiority complex. Why some hispanics want to force others to be "hispanics" or "latins" if those others are not hispanics neither like to be reduced to the "latin" sterotype? Are you ethnical orphans? If only the spanish-speaking people are considered "latin" this is a humiliation or disregard? Aren’t you proud of your cultural identity, is it necessary to have others to give "bright" to it?
If I was a hispanic I would not worry a split second if Brazilians are not hispanics or if they never feel themselves like "latins".
Sorry but that "dissatisfaction" about Brazilians have other language and cultural identity means a big inferiority complex. Brazilians is culturally and ethnically very more near to Portugueses, Angolans and others african-lusophones than the hispanics. Even the itallians and germans had more influence in Brazilian culture than spaniards.
Brazilians don't need other (false) definition or "classification" than "Brazilians". It is more than sufficient.
******
From academic sources:
"A Colombian, Mexican and Spaniard would all be Hispanics, but not the Brazilian or the Romanian, since Brazil was colonized by the Portuguese, and neither Portugal nor Romania is an extension of Spain."
"Due to the fact that "Latino" is generally recognized, incorrectly by the average American as a synonym of "Hispanic", some Brazilians (Portuguese speakers), when included under the Latino definition may or may not feel comfortable. Other non-Spanish speaking people originating from other Latin American countries may feel similarly due to the perceived negation of their language and diverse ethnic heritage by the generalization of the term.
The two terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" are not strictly interchangeable. The latter term applies to any American with origins in any Latin American country, including Brazilian Americans, although as already noted, not all Brazilian Americans accept the designation. "Hispanic", however, applies to Americans with origins in the Latin American countries other than Brazil; i.e., it only applies to Americans with origins in Hispanic America - the Spanish-speaking countries of Latin America. The Hispanic American countries are cultural descendants of Spain; Brazil is a cultural descendant of Portugal."
Although Protugueses and Spanishes have a comon heritage and were toegether for centuries in History, Hipano is a word directly related to Spain and to the Spanish language. It is a restricted group of persons that have something in common, the Spanish languagethat has been herited from Spanish colonization.
Latino is a more generic classification. It certainly includes French, Italians, Brazilians, Hispanics, Romanians, etc.
In US your race is supposed to be White, Black, Indian or Hispanic. Hispanic being defined as someone from South/Central Amercia regardless of race. This is certainly a bad classification and also include people that speaks other languages, like in Jamaica or Haiti.
Brazilians just cannot see themselves belonging to the Hispanic group but are not against the common heritage and certainly identifies themselves with all the other groups in Latin America. We share many roots, habits, environment, food, etc.
In US we see ouselves as brothers, very close to anyone coming from any place outside US.
It is not a big deal to be classified as Hispanic for a Brazilian but it just doesn't seem right. It is more apropriate to be included in the Latino group, origin of our language and common roots.
I was born in Brazil but now live in USA & All my white, hispanic & black friends consider brazilians hispanics & i agree. All hispanic countries have the same culture as we do.I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BRAZILIANS ARE NOT PORTUGUESE!!! just because we speak the language doesnt mean anything.
As we've seen on this forum, there are lots of geographic and historical facts that are being used to claim that Brazilians are _NOT_ hispanic (and I personally agree with that. I agree that the brazilian culture is, in many ways, very similar of the rest of latin america/south america/hispanics; However, similarity is not an argument to say that brazilians are hispanic, otherwise, we could also say that ducks and chickens are the same. They are _similar_, but not the same.)The fact that your "white, hispanic and black" friends consider brazilians as hispanics is not a valid argument, and doesn't change anything (during the WW2, Aryans considered themselves a superior race, but that doesn't mean that they were).What happens, in my opinion, is that people have a great tendency to "generalize", mainly because that's what they were taught since their childhood (by school, by the society where he lived, or simply because he never cared or needed to know the right way). Just misinformation. Chineses are not japaneses, and koreans are not chineses. Not every japanese is buddhist. Afeganistans are not pakistans (and hey, they aren't terrorists). Brazilians are not hispanic, and mexicans are not brazilians, but both are latins.In my opinion, we shouldn't be asking ourselves why brazilians are or aren't hispanic or why chinese people like to eat dogs. We should be asking: why grown up people reach their majority after spend (waste?) several years on education, without understanding that they live in a world of 6 billions of persons, with something like 243 countries and self-governing entities, and that they are DIFFERENT from each other? Without even knowing the basics of the world where they live ? Learned to understand and respect the cultural differences that exists among us, humans ?
I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BRAZILIANS ARE NOT PORTUGUESE!!!
No one said Brazilians were Portuguese, just like Mexicans and every people from Spanish-speaking countries are spanish.
Like i said both cultures ( portuguese and spanish ) are so similar that i feel like they are both entwined. So as Portuguese i feel myself hispanic, and i think the same applies to Brazilian!!
Um grande abraço pra toda galera brazuca
I grew up in America and was born in Brazil as well. I love the Hispanic culture and find it captivating, but I would be wrong to agree with you that as a Brazilian I am Hispanic. I can say we are Latin, but Hispanics are only those that are of Spanish origin and their countries speak Spanish. Brazilians was conquered by Portuguese conquistadors, not Spanish, therefore we speak Portuguese, not Spanish, and that makes us of Brazilian/Latin descent, not Spanish/Hispanic/Latin.
I was born in Brazil but now live in USA & All my white, hispanic & black friends consider brazilians hispanics & i agree. All hispanic countries have the same culture as we do.I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BRAZILIANS ARE NOT PORTUGUESE!!! just because we speak the language doesnt mean anything.
As Portuguese, i feel like i should clarify somethings that have been the topic of this post. First and foremost, Hispania was the name given to the Iberian Peninsula and it was constituted by different roman provinces: Hispania ulterior ( Andalucia,Portugal,Extremadura,Galicia,Asturias,a part of Castilla,etc.) and Hispania Citerior ( The eastern part of Castilla,Arágon,Valencia,Cataluña,etc. ).In my opinion, Brazilians are both hispanics and latinos,because they speak a latin language and share a latin culture, like every latin countries, and they are hispanics ( in some ways ),because Portugal was a part of what was designated as Hispania, let's not forget the words of one of the greatest portuguese poets of all time, Luis de Camões, "Castillans and Portuguese: for Hispanioles we all are. Even though im Portuguese, and Portugal has a long kind-of-rivalry tradition with Spain, i consider Spaniards as my brothers due to the language and mediterranian culture similarity, por esso, tambien me considero Hispanico en un sentido histórico.
"Latin America" is a very misleading notion per se and should be abolished by educated Americans. It has long been used to refer to a region that not only has totally different languages but also different cultures - Portuguese and Spanish. This concept derives from the widespread American disinterest about Geography and oversimplistic assumptions and discriminatory attitudes brought about during daily contact with Mexicans.
Furthermore, the Romans used the Latin language as the legal and commercial idiom to trade and regulate businesses – in detriment of all languages spoken in the conquered regions. This directive served to spread and consolidate the Roman economic power and enable faster assimilation and appreciation of the Roman culture in the daily life, inducing less revolts. As all England, Spain, Portugal and France were conquered and dominated by the Romans by many centuries, cult Americans from all countries in fact consider the term “Latin America” as consisting in “all countries in America that were deeply affected by the Latin idiom and the Roman culture”. This definition thus encompasses ALL countries in the American Continent - with the exception of the regions were the native American languages and cultures are still alive, in both hemispheres.
Approaching now the core question: In spite of originating from the same European Iberian peninsula, the Portuguese people had much less territory to harvest than its Spanish neighbors and so were much more dependant on the sea. In short, a small nation with many competent sailors. They traveled more all around the world and sooner than the XV century Spaniards. They believed that much could be gained from learning far cultures - not only merchandise but also much knowledge. The Portuguese culture has a much different view and respect towards foreign lands and foreign cultures, and thus react/assimilate” the Roman Empire at a different level. Common Portuguese and Spanish people however have ALWAYS treated themselves like brothers in the past centuries (I cannot say the same in regard to XV-XVI century governments and their military).
Later on, the expansion of the XV century Portuguese Empire, was originated not only from the belief that much commercial profit could be gained from far cultures, but also valuable strategic knowledge. This was the basic reason why the Portuguese crown directed the elaboration of the famous Portulano maps, commercial trade routes, and a directive to all sea commanders to study and explore foreign cultures and economies in a non destructive way - very different from that of the Spanish sea commanders.
Consequently, the interaction of Portuguese sailors with foreign natives could be a "little more peaceful" (IF we can say that any colonizer of that time could really be called peaceful...), organized and mutually beneficial than those promoted by the Spanish. The Portuguese colonized not only several regions of Africa and Asia but also South America, through a relatively “peaceful” contact with the local population - trying to build pacific ties and agree on land-sharing principles with them before establishing their colonies. The Spaniards on the contrary, did not bother to pacific or agree with no local population in a sustainable way - they simply tried to exterminate all who opposed them. The main consequence of these facts is that Brazilians have a much broader respect and interest for foreigners and foreign cultures, and our indian population was more easily and quickly intermingled with the colonizers. This fact is reflected in our cultures and languages in such a strong way that Spaniards cannot grasp what we are saying even though we can understand them perfectly. Without any disrespect, we can say that the Portuguese idiom is MUCH richer in verb tenses, words, synonyms and idioms than the Spanish idiom.
Outsiders say our modern cultures look very similar and our people use to embrace and host each other in such a strong way that they think unthinkable. However, even though we love our neighbors, share thousands of values, faiths, beliefs, customs, songs and cultural issues, and immediately grant them the status of our international representatives in forums and competitions, we also are somehow dissimilar in some values and traditions. On the other hand, even look-alike brothers may also have some different tastes and points of view. This is why I think we are brother-like peoples and should NOT be separated, especially when facing the outside world.
Therefore, Brazil cannot be categorized in the same cultural and economic region as the remaining South American countries colonized by Spain. It is simply not fair and does not reflect the real truth. The vast majority of the countries in the world do not refer to Brazil as being Latin American, but as being South American - including the Europeans. Again, this is a totally misleading term, employed only by Americans (British and Australians do not use it also) who do not know Brazil and want to simplify notions - in a very biased way.
But the bottom line is that, even though we are not the same, we are still BROTHER peoples who treat and respect each other like real good brothers do! Let's all vote for changing NSHP into NSLP!
"Latin America" is a very misleading notion per se and should be abolished by educated Americans. It has long been used to refer to a region that not only has totally different languages but also different cultures - Portuguese and Spanish. This concept derives from the widespread American disinterest about Geography and oversimplistic assumptions and discriminatory attitudes brought about during daily contact with Mexicans.
Furthermore, the Romans used the Latin language as the legal and commercial idiom to trade and regulate businesses – in detriment of all languages spoken in the conquered regions. This directive served to spread and consolidate the Roman economic power and enable faster assimilation and appreciation of the Roman culture in the daily life, inducing less revolts. As all England, Spain, Portugal and France were conquered and dominated by the Romans by many centuries, cult Americans from all countries in fact consider the term “Latin America” as consisting in “all countries in America that were deeply affected by the Latin idiom and the Roman culture”. This definition thus encompasses ALL countries in the American Continent - with the exception of the regions were the native American languages and cultures are still alive, in both hemispheres.
Approaching now the core question: In spite of originating from the same European Iberian peninsula, the Portuguese people had much less territory to harvest than its Spanish neighbors and so were much more dependant on the sea. In short, a small nation with many competent sailors. They traveled more all around the world and sooner than the XV century Spaniards. They believed that much could be gained from learning far cultures - not only merchandise but also much knowledge. The Portuguese culture has a much different view and respect towards foreign lands and foreign cultures, and thus react/assimilate” the Roman Empire at a different level. Common Portuguese and Spanish people however have ALWAYS treated themselves like brothers in the past centuries (I cannot say the same in regard to XV-XVI century governments and their military).
Later on, the expansion of the XV century Portuguese Empire, was originated not only from the belief that much commercial profit could be gained from far cultures, but also valuable strategic knowledge. This was the basic reason why the Portuguese crown directed the elaboration of the famous Portulano maps, commercial trade routes, and a directive to all sea commanders to study and explore foreign cultures and economies in a non destructive way - very different from that of the Spanish sea commanders.
Consequently, the interaction of Portuguese sailors with foreign natives could be a "little more peaceful" (IF we can say that any colonizer of that time could really be called peaceful...), organized and mutually beneficial than those promoted by the Spanish. The Portuguese colonized not only several regions of Africa and Asia but also South America, through a relatively “peaceful” contact with the local population - trying to build pacific ties and agree on land-sharing principles with them before establishing their colonies. The Spaniards on the contrary, did not bother to pacific or agree with no local population in a sustainable way - they simply tried to exterminate all who opposed them. The main consequence of these facts is that Brazilians have a much broader respect and interest for foreigners and foreign cultures, and our indian population was more easily and quickly intermingled with the colonizers. This fact is reflected in our cultures and languages in such a strong way that Spaniards cannot grasp what we are saying even though we can understand them perfectly. Without any disrespect, we can say that the Portuguese idiom is MUCH richer in verb tenses, words, synonyms and idioms than the Spanish idiom.
Outsiders say our modern cultures look very similar and our people use to embrace and host each other in such a strong way that they think unthinkable. However, even though we love our neighbors, share thousands of values, faiths, beliefs, customs, songs and cultural issues, and immediately grant them the status of our international representatives in forums and competitions, we also are somehow dissimilar in some values and traditions. On the other hand, even look-alike brothers may also have some different tastes and points of view. This is why I think we are brother-like peoples and should NOT be separated, especially when facing the outside world.
Therefore, Brazil cannot be categorized in the same cultural and economic region as the remaining South American countries colonized by Spain. It is simply not fair and does not reflect the real truth. The vast majority of the countries in the world do not refer to Brazil as being Latin American, but as being South American - including the Europeans. Again, this is a totally misleading term, employed only by Americans (British and Australians do not use it also) who do not know Brazil and want to simplify notions - in a very biased way.
But the bottom line is that, even though we are not the same, we are still BROTHER people who treat and respect each other like real good brothers do! Let's all vote for changing NSHP into NSLP!
Hi everyone, I couldn't avoid getting involved in this discussion so here I go. :D
-I've seen some people say Poland, Greece and other countries are Latin, well they are not. Poland is Slavic and Greece is Greek (duh...). Countries like Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Moldova (Europe's poorest country) ARE LATIN.
-Romanian is probably the strangest Latin language and probably the toughest to understand for us Latins, because it has a lot of Slavic borrowed words. Romanian is Daco-Romance. =)
-Someone said that "Portugal isn't part of the Iberian Peninsula, if you want to refer to Spain and Portugal you should say *Luso-Iberian Peninsula*...". This is totally wrong. "Iberia" is not the same as "Spain", "Hispania" is, in fact in the times of the Roman Empire, the province was referred as "Hispania" (and the word "España" comes from it). The correct term to refer to both countries/languages is "Luso-Hispanic".
-Also, "Hispania" WAS NOT THE NAME FOR THE WHOLE PENINSULA (as I said before) AND THE ROMANS (FROM THE ROMAN EMPIRE) USED THE WORD "LUSITANIA" TO NAME THE PROVINCE THAT NOWADAYS IS PORTUGAL.
-Brazil is Latin. =)
-But whatever, the subject here is if Brazilians are Hispanic and I see many Brazilians here annoyed about it. It's surprising not to see Portugese spoken ("writen"...). OK, I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I would say it's "Semi-Hispanic" =) because Portugal is "funny Spanish". By this, I'm not saying Portuguese is a dialect from Spanish, not at all, but Portugal is so linked to Spain and Brazilians can't deny they can understand Spanish although many pretend they do, lol.
Some quick things to add is that:
-Portugal was part of Spain until the 13th century.
-Someone in this forum said "Brazil was not conquered by Spain, but it was conquered by Portugal...". Well you know, the Portuguese colony in South America started out small and then got bigger. Portuguese settlers started moving west and took the land from Spain (as it was established in their treaty). Even lately, Brazil has taken land from my country (Peru), lol. In fact, 80% OF WHAT IS NOW BRAZIL WAS FORMERLY SPANISH.
-Portuguese and Spanish are so similar that in the boundaries between Portuguese and Spanish-speaking countries "Portuñol" (Portunhol) is spoken.
To conclude this, I don't know why Brazilians get annoyed being called "Hispanic", I wouldn't mind being called "Portuguese" or "Lusophone" or even "Brazilian". This part of the Latin family is so linked together (history, language, religion, etc...), together the luso-hispanic block sums more than 500 million (half a billion... wow). Brazilians don't deny you can understand Spanish (unless it's Mexican Spanish... lol, joking), you're "Semi-Hispanic" as I am "Semi-Lusophone". ;)
I am Brazilian and I feel that although we speak Portuguese and not Spanish, on a broader sense (both historically and culturally), all Latinos have a close inheritance and should be considered as one large group.
I fully support adding "Latino" to the name of group to avoid any misunderstanding with regards to the language.
I am Brazilian and I do not consider myself Hispanic. Hispanics are of Spanish origin, they were conquered by Spanish Conquistadors and Brazil was not, we were conquered by the Portuguese Conquistadors. That is why we speak Portuguese and not Spanish.
Now when it comes to being Latin, many other countries fall into this category. Latin is a dead language that the following romance languages derived from: Italian, French, Portuguese, Spanish and Romanian, therefore Hispanics are not the only people of Latin descent.
Here is the history of Latin cultures I learned going to college in Brasil, where I was born and raised:
Latin, the root of the romantic languages and spoken by the ancient Romans, branched out in five different languages as the Roman Empire expanded throughout Europe. These languages are: Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian and Romenian. The great distances made it difficult for constant communication and the Mother Language Latin eventually changed according to the different regions and were also influenced by the neighboring cultures as the years passed.
Italian, the closest language to Latin, remained spoken in the more modern Rome in its vicinities. From Rome toward the East and closer to the slavick neighbors, it branched out to Romenian. Moving Northwest (from Rome) the language changed to French. Going farther West to the region then called "Hispania" hence the term "Hispanic", the language became Spanish. Later the region's named spelling was changed to España (Spain). Moving Southwest from "Hispania" was the region then called "Portu Calé" (Port Calé) where the language took another twist from the Gallego and Catalán - both from the Southern part of "Hispania". "Portu Calé" eventually became Portugal and the language Portuguese.
So, Brazilians are as Latin as anyone from the Spanish Latin America. Also Latin, are people from Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, and Romenia. As you can see, limiting the term "Latin" or "Latino" to Spanish speaking Latin Americans only is wrong and I am sorry to say....very declassé. Quite embarrassing if you ask me...
I totally agree with you. I live in New York, and calling Hispanics Latinos it's very irritating to me. I keep correcting everyone, but it is exhausting. Unfortunately, the media, which has the duty of educating, is the first to commit the atrocity (not intended to hurt anyone's feeling). I do believe everything should be called by its own name, why calling José like Juan when José and Juan are different people? Their names are similar, they are both males, but they are not the same. Please do not confuse Latin and Hispanic; they are different adjectives with different meanings.
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo. Vivo en Nueva York, y me irrita escuchar a la gente llamar latino a los hispanos. Corrijo a todo el que lo dice frente a mí, pero es muy agotante. Desafortunadamente, los medios informativos son los primeros en cometer el gran error, de hecho, lo considero una atrocidad lingüística, o mejor dicho semántica. Son los medios informativos los que deben educar la sociedad, no desinformarla. Cada debe llamarse por su nombre, o ¿Cómo vamos a llamar a Jose por el nombre de Juan, cuando son dos personas totalmente diferente? El que tengan un nombre parecido y los dos sean hombres no significa que Juan y Jose sean la misma persona. Por favor, no confundan “latino” con “hispano”.
correcting everyone, but it is exhausting. Unfortunately, the media, which has the duty of educating, is the first to commit the atrocity (not intended to hurt anyone's feeling). I do believe everything should be called by its own name, why calling José like Juan when José and Juan are different people? Their names are similar, they are both males, but they are not the same. Please do not confuse Latin and Hispanic; they are different adjectives with different meanings.
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo. Vivo en Nueva York, y me irrita escuchar a la gente llamar latino a los hispanos. Corrijo a todo el que lo dice frente a mí, pero es muy agotante. Desafortunadamente, los medios informativos son los primeros en cometer el gran error, de hecho, lo considero una atrocidad lingüística, o mejor dicho semántica. Son los medios informativos los que deben educar la sociedad, no desinformarla. Cada debe llamarse por su nombre, o ¿Cómo vamos a llamar a Jose por el nombre de Juan, cuando son dos personas totalmente diferente? El que tengan un nombre parecido y los dos sean hombres no significa que Juan y Jose sean la misma persona. Por favor, no confundan “latino” con “hispano”.
Any well-educated people know that. The meaning of the Hispanic word is related to any Spanish-speaking people, thus, all those who speak Spanish are Hispanic. In addition, “Hispanic” is not related to any specific region or color; you just need to speak Spanish to be classified as Hispanic. We Brazilians speak Portuguese, so we are not Hispanic.
However, The Latin word means any language that has it origins from the Latin and it does not matter the region too. Just as examples of Latin countries: Poland, Italy, France, Greek, Scotland, Croatia, Belgium and many others that are called the Latin European Countries. Nevertheless, the mostly Latin people are the Italians, because the Latin language was originated in Italy and expanded throughout the Europe with the Roman Emperor. Therefore, many Americans and others as well, are stupid and uneducated to know the difference between Hispanic and Latin. Actually, any Hispanic will be Latin, but not all Latin will be Hispanic, examples: Brazilians, Greek people, and Italians. (Helloo! We don’t speak Spanish…).
However, sometimes is better for us to classify ourselves as Hispanic. I’m a computer scientist graduated from Rutgers University, NJ. Moreover, I learned that sometimes, we have to fill some forms which ask us if we are White, Hispanic, or White not Hispanic. Many Brazilians mark down “white not Hispanic” There is one reason for these questions, and it is to verify in which group you are belong. If you are looking for a scholarship, a hospital charity care, or filling an emergence room form. You would be surer to gain what you are looking for if you mark as Hispanic because you will be classified as “MINORITY people” and they have more grants for these people. If you mark “White not Hispanic”, they will think you are European, and they will think you are wealthier than the Hispanics and will place you on hold and take care of the minority first.
As a son of Brazilian parents born in the US, I am very proud of my heritage and I do not consider myself Hispanic but Latin. Now, I disagree with the comment made that Brazilians do not consider themselves Luso-Brazilians. Well, most of my great-grandparents are Portuguese and I am proud of that and I try to cultivate some of that culture to pass down to my kids. I am also a descendent of French and Japanese and proud of them too. I have cousins who are Italians, others Lebanese, and others Germans and Dutch. We are all Brazilians but also proud of our heritage in our ways. Now, in college I came across a PoliSci class where my teacher said that term "Latin America" only applies to Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries but not to the french ones. I was appalled, and I had to argue with the teacher about it (being part French myself I should know better than him). So he did not consider the French a Latin people. He lacked the understanding that "Latin people" is not a race but a linguistic group. The Luso-Iberian people are not the same people as the Italians where Latin came from anyway. But culturally, the French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish have a lot in common - the language, some customs, and personalities.
Other point is, Edward James Olmos came to my college and said that the only real "Latin-American" is one who is of Indian-white mix. I protested right there on the spot. That was the most stupid thing I ever heard! And that coming from someone who should know better. So Pele, my Germanic step-mom, and myself include are not consider Latin-American. Does he know how many people in South America does not have any native blood?!!! Get real. That kind of crap is that makes the general American public so confused about the people south of the Rio Grande. Just call Brazilians Brazilians, Argentinians Argentians, French French, etc... That would be better.
Brazilians consider themselves "Hispanics"?
No, we don't, due to the definition of Hispanic. We do, however, consider ourselves "Latinoamericanos" as it refers to the region we come from, not our ethnicity.
Latinos is a much more preferred term and is more inviting to Brazilians.
I'm a Spanish/English speaking Brazilian passionate about this topic. I even wrote an article about it which is posted on www.arrepiabrasil.org
So yes, we would be very grateful if the term Hispanic was just eliminated.
Curiously, some websites are completely eliminating Brazilians from their definition of the Hispanic Category. Check out for example, www.mellon.com/careers. A Brazilian submitting a resume there finds no appropriate category other than "white."
I wish labels were not necessary. My dream is to see us living as one world.
Brazilians are not even "latinos"
Don't believe in cultural reductions or stereotypes. Theorically all the people living in the Americas are "americans" but in the real life, worldwidely, "americans" are the US people. Theorically Senegalese (french), Mozambicans (portuguese), Frenchs, Brazilians, Romanians, Haitians (french), Angolans (portuguese), Italians - etc, etc - are all "latins" because they speak a language derived from Latin but in the real life is the hispanic people who is known as "latinos". According to the false and forced "Latin America" concept, all the nations speak latin languages "inside" but in the reality Suriname speak Dutch, Jamaica and other little nations speak English or Dutch, non-latin languages. Geographically Mexico is in North America but nobody calls Mexicans as "north-americans".
"Latin America" was a pseudo geo-politic concept created to separate the white (today not so white) and rich America (US and Canadá) from the "rest", the poor and not so white America. It's a concept based in prejudice.
Brazilians are not "latinos" and never saw themselves as "latinos". Here is very common to refer to hispanics like "the latinos", automathically excluding us. It's not that we depreciate them. Brazilians are not better or worst than any people, we all know the many problems of Brazil. It's natural. Brazilian people always saw themselves like just Brazilians. To us, Hispanics are so foreigners as Americans or Canadians. Brazilians don't understand Spanish and Hispanics don't understand Portuguese. It's necessary to learn them, like English, French, etc. Of course, Brazil is south-american, geographically.
Brazil is other America, is the Lusophone America, that speak Portuguese. Brazil had other colonial heritage (only from Portugal, not Spain), have other culture, other racial/ethnic mix, other social composition, other idiossincracies, other soul and styles. The majority of Brazilians (I guess something like 80%/85%) are mixed from Portugueses + Brazil's original indigenous + Black (from Africa). The rest of immigrants were basically Italians, Germans (in South), Arabs, Dutch (Holland invasion in Northeast), Japanese. The Spaniard immigrants weren't so relevant like Italians, Germans or Arabs. Obvious: Spaniards prefered to immigrate to hispanic countries. Culturally we have a big influence from Ocidental Africa, mainly from the area known today as Angola and Nigeria.
I don't know why some hispanics become "offended" when they see Brazil or Brazilians are not like they "imagined". Probably is a inferiority complex. It's curious, because, very probably, they never visited Brazil. They have the same stereotyped vision of Brazilian culture and people like the Anglophones. Don't worry. Hispanics don't need Brazilians. You have your culture and own qualities. Hispanics have big cultural intersections between themselves, the Spanish language and the Spanish colonial heritage.
The Brazil's intersections are with Portugal, Angola, Mozambique.. . the lusophones.
Do Brazilians consider themselves HIspanics?
What an eloquent, articulate posting!
I wish all of us would assign less importance to labels and more importance to content and substance.
In Brazil, Brazilians (it seems to me) pay far more attention to the US than to any of their neighbors. You are correct; in their own country they are most unlikely to call themselves Hispanic.
Historically and culturally, Brazilians and (other?) non-Luso Hispanics have much in common in their heritage. But there are significant differences, too. The great Spanish epic (and heroic) poem is El Cid Campeador; it is full of armed struggle with the Moors: blood, decapitated heads rolling in the sand . . . In contrast, the great Lusitanian (Portuguese) epic poem is Os Lusíadas, about a brave, daring people in service to their Lady, Venus, the goddess of love. For their service, the crew of Vasco da Gama, representing the Portuguese nation, is rewarded on the Isle of Love.
Major differences, sim, senhor! Vive la différence!
Homero F.
This site should be NSLP
Hello, all!
I am new to this forum but I couldn't help but to hit the reply bottom when I saw this question, actually questions the Editor has initially made.
First of all, as far as I know, most Brazilians, educated or not, would not consider themselves Hispanics because they relate this to be inherent of Spanish speaking people, from Spain or not.
If all Brazilians feel this way, I can't, obviously, tell for sure. I would think this is a common belief taking it from the opinion of many Brazilians I know and my own opinion, of course. However...
... it could be possible that we, Brazilians, consider ourselves Hispanic when, for instance, trying to RSVP and participate in a bilingual event promoted by NSHP. We would purposely include ourselves and be a member of a Hispanic site for convenience and will not be upset or ask to change the name just because the title excludes Portuguese speakers.
I guess there could be other examples where we could pass as Hispanic for lack of options. In my case, however, I can't say I have this issue as I am of Hispanic origin since my parents are from a Spanish speaking country and not I have only double citizenship, but also speak Spanish fluently.
So as you can see this term would apply to me, but what if I did not have a second citizenship and/or Hispanic ethnicity? Well, in this case I would rather fit into a broader definition than in a doubtful one, meaning NSLP will be far more appropriate.
In fact, if NSHP changed to NSLP that would possible include Italian and French speakers. I think it will be less focused to people who spoke Spanish but they still will be the majority without leaving others feeling "left-out".
It is truth that people want to be understood for what they are, Brazilians as Brazilians, Mexicans as Mexicans, Colombians as Colombians, French as French, Portuguese as Portuguese, etc. but if we are trying to create opportunity for bilinguals who speak Spanish and Portuguese you can't qualify them in base of national origin but on language. Since Portuguese and Spanish are different languages a common denominator would be Latin and by doing so will also create opportunity to include other Latin languages.
If you want to keep this as an exclusive Hispanic site open to Brazilians that's fine but think that these Brazilian coming here are more likely NOT considering themselves Hispanics; they are simply taking advantage of the inclusion of opportunities for Portuguese speakers, if they find out this is not only for Spanish speaking people.
I am 100% to change the name to NSLP because this, consciously or not, does exclude Brazilian and other Portuguese speakers. I know you didn't mean for that to happen but you should know it does, otherwise you would not have post these questions and received so many comments. ;)
Best regards!
Yes and No.....It Depends.....
If you ask me, people these days are too hung up on titles and labels. If you are asking Brazilians whether we consider ourselves Hispanic I have to somewhat agree with the previous posting. You can argue both ways. You can use the label to your advantage in order to be included or excluded. I think that if you are not Brazilian then you have to respect the individual you are talking to, if he is Brazilian and considers himself Hispanic then it is not your place to tell him he is not Hispanic and vice versa.
There are so many variables and there is not one universal definition of the word Hispanic. In Chicago, most of the Brazilians that I have met do consider themselves Hispanic. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that, in Chicago, Brazilians tend to live in the same areas and associate with Spanish speakers. We share a lot of cultural similarities with Spanish speakers. We share a lot of the same foods. Our languages are extremely close although in my experience it's much easier for a Portuguese speaker to understand Spanish than the reverse.
I think the biggest link is that we come from the same ancestry.....Iberian European ancestors who came over during colonial times and intermixed with Indians and Africans. DNA ancestry testing has shown that Brazilians have a similar genetic makeup to Colombians, Puerto Ricans, and other Spanish speaking nations. Thus, we look pretty similar to our Spanish speaking cousins. Also, our surnames are almost identical except for a letter or two, or in some cases, completely the same as Spanish surnames. Many organizations classify people as Hispanic strictly by their surname.
I should also add that many "Hispanic" organizations often include Portuguese speakers. There are Spanish language magazines with articles in Portuguese. Many Spanish websites such as dating services or chat rooms have both Spanish and Portuguese versions. And Portuguese speakers often appear on Spanish game shows like "Sabado Gigante" out of Miami. And I think because of a similar affinity between Spain and Portugal, many people from Portugal consider themselves Hispanic. I have two such friends.
I should add that I am speaking as a Brazilian in the United States. I don't think anyone considers himself Hispanic in Portugal or Brazil. Race, origin and ethnicity are viewed differently in different countries. But that's the case with many labels. For example, if your grandparents were Polish then you probably tell people that you are Polish. But if you are vacationing in France, you would probably say that you are an American.
My opinion....why let language prevent people with similar history, ancestry and culture from being united. We can accomplish so much more together.
Brazilian categorization
Just a few personal observations:
Spent a few months in Brazil and I never got the impression that Brazilians have any particular affinity with their Spanish-speaking neighbors. No animosity, either, but there was a definite sense that their culture, while broad (it's a big country), was distinct. In Salvador da Bahia, it didn't appear to me that the Argentinian tourists were any less foreign than I was.
One of the more interesting impressions I got was that Brazilians are as culturally self-sufficient (I'll call it inward-looking) as Americans. Both Brazil and the US seem to borrow freely from everyone and then modify whatever they like and make it their own. (I have no experience in other Latin American countries, so this situation may there, as well.)
From this, as an "Anglo-American" it would seem quite odd to refer to Brazilians as Hispanics or even Latinos because of the cultural and political implications. The US is very big on categorization, and one of the reasons for this is that it defines political interests and power. As a point of comparison, there are quite a few African Americans saying Senator Obama is not "black" or "African American" because he doesn't have the same slave-derived history. Interestingly, the fact that he is half-white seems less of an issue.
Further on categorization, some people on this thread have brought up race and ethnicity. Clearly, this is a difficult area. The US Government has two categories: race and ethnicity, and the only "ethnicity" they usually gather data on is "Hispanic or Non-Hispanic." How Brazilians would respond to this question on a form or whatever I don't know. From a cultural/linguistic perspective, they may say "non-Hispanic," but if the question is taken from a political perspective, some Brazilians may consider their interests closely aligned with those of Latinos/Hispanics and therefore declare themselves "Hispanic."
It's an interesting area of inquiry, at any rate.
What's the confusion people???
Brazilians are Latinos (as are the French, Italians, Portuguese, aka Brazilians, etc) but not Hispanic. Hispanic coming from the Latin word for Spain, (Hispania) means that the latins who originate from Spain, (as opposed to other Latins) are HISPANIC.
Brazilians and Hispanic
The time may never come when there is a common definition of the therm "Hispanic," because it is too often applied to a nationality, not to the cultures that make up the Iberian peninsula.
The Romans called the entire peninsula "Hispania." The nation we call Spain is itself made up of several cultures with different histories and languages--most of them now extinct. Some still thrive: Catalan, Galician, and Basque. Even the language we call Spanish names a nationality; the name of the language is Castilian.
Portugal is part of ancient Hispania. That it is now independent of Spain does not negate the heritage it shares with the other cultures that make up Iberia.
It is true that Brazilians, like most people, think of Spanish-speaking peoples when they hear the term "hispano." But, in a richer, deeper, historical sense, they are indeed Hispanic. Perhaps the term Luso-Hispanic would distinguish their cultural heritage. It would be far more difficult to identify the other cultures of Spain with specific countries (as the Portuguese are identified with Brazil) because none of the sub-cultures of Spain--Galicians, Asturians, Leonese, Catalans, Basques, etc.--left their descendents predominantly in one country.
But are Brazilians Hispanic? I would say that they are far more Hispanic than are many (perhaps most) US "Hispanics" who, though having Hispanic ancestors, were born in the US, have learned Spanish poorly, and share in the common customs and history of Iberia far less than Brazilians do.
Homero F.
Brazilians and Portuguese are NOT HISPANICS
You should learn more on the history of Iberia. Early Romans always called it Iberia and that same Iberia was divided in different colonies: Lusitania (where Portugal is today), Hispania (Spain today) which later was divided into Galicia, Baetica... and so on. I am sorry man but Portugal (ancient Lusitania) was always part of Iberia not Hispania. I know you are trying to make Brazil and Portugal hispanics nations but they are not. Doing that you are denying the LUSOPHONE language and culture. Both are countries are LUSOPHONE (Lusófonos). How can you talk about that if you don't know anything on Brazilian and Portuguese history and language?
In Geography and History we call Brazil LUSOPHONE AMERICA like we do with the USA and Canada when we call them Anglo America. All the Spanish speaking countries we call them HISPANIC AMERICA. The one speaks French we call FRANCO AMERICA. Your note shows in a very nasty and prepotent way that you are trying very hard to make Portugal and brazil part of the Hispanic world, but I am sorry you are completly wrong about that. We are proud of our language and culture and we are also proud to belong to the LUSOPHONE world. We have our own community and our own language academy. Of the Hispanic world the only thing is closest to us is Galicia, because the Galician dialect and the Galician culture is very close to Portuguese culture and language.
Concluding Brazilians have nothing to do with Hispanic culture or language (only the Latin connection from ROME). Brazil in reality has a very unique culture that for sure is deeply connect to Portugal. Homero finishing my comment remember BRAZIL is parte of the LUSOPHONE world and nothing you can do about it.
We Brazilians should continue making stronger our LUSOPHONE culture in Brazil and Portugal and also out there. By the way Portuguese is today the number six language by number of speakers in the world.
Nicer and more pleasant try
While you should verify your facts (start by looking Hispania and Iberia up in Wikipedia), your language is far more civil. Your assertions, however, are not facts unless you can back them up.
A common heritage does in fact make for kinships. Study the history of Hispania from the time of the Roman invasion. Then we can talk about cultures in a more informed manner.
My best,
Homero
Addendum
I am astounded by the emotional, anti-intellectual responses to my posting. Their tenor recalls that of the "conservative" Republicans of the US: they are based on anger and arrogance. In all sincerity, I had not expected anything of the sort when I made my original posting.
Futhermore, the responses go far astray of the point I was making, which was that Americans born and reared in the US often have at least one parent of Hispanic (here I mean non-Lusitanian) ancestry. Although they know little about Hispanic culture, history, customs, and language, they call themselves "Hispanic." I contend that the Portuguese and Brazilians both have more in common with Spaniards of all cultures than do most of the "Hispanic" Americans of the US.
That was all.
Now I have to ask whether I understand the assertions. Do those assertions mean that the peoples of Iberia have a lot in common only if they make up part of Spain and little in common with other Iberian peoples if they are Portuguese?
Hispania and Brasil
Ora, meu chapa, se você for mesmo brasileiro, fico contente ao observar que meus 40+ anos de convivência com o povão do Brasil desmente o disrespeito e grosseiria que você manifesta em sua resposta. Palavra, a arrogância não constitui prerequisito ao desacordo!
Some of your facts are simply incorrect. The Romans did in fact call the entire peninusula Hispania; the Greeks called it Iberia (see Wikipedia.org). Where did you get your facts? Please cite the source.
And, yes, Roman Hispania has consisted of many cultures and languages, the Basque predating the Roman invasion. Are you still unaware of the Catalans, the Basques, and the Galicians who even today preserve their own cultures and languages?
Spain and Hispanic today reference a nation, not an ethnicity. And, yes, over 2000 years, Portugal has in fact shared much of the history that Catalonia, Galicia, Andalucia, Castille, Asturias, etc., have all shared. And, yes, Brazilians--as a consequence of their Lusitanian heritage--have far more in common linguistically and culturally with their Iberian counterparts than do Spanish-surnamed, American-born and reared citizens who call themselves Hispanic even though they speak poor Spanish--if any at all.
If you can reply civilly and with respect, I shall look forward to hearing from you.
Wikipedia is not a source
Wikipedia is not a source you can trust. The ACADEMIC world doesn't accept information from WIKIPEDIA. I am sorry but I am not being nasty with anyone I was just giving my point of view. Nasty was this guy name Homero who has very incorrect information inside his notes. You should ask him to cite his sources too. Would be fair don't you think so??? I felt through your words your anger and your defense toward the Spanish speaking world. I am not being nasty with the Spanish speaking community. In reality I was just expressing my point of view through my knowledge on the subject. I am not Brazilian I am Portuguese but I have relative in Brazil that thinks the same way I think. I am sorry if I did hurt your feelings. Your are part hispanic? Married with someone that is hispanic? Or you are just being nasty with me? Man I know what I am talking about. Come to my office and I will show you all the sources I have and you will agree with me.
Hispania and Brasil
Ora, meu chapa, se você for mesmo brasileiro, fico contente ao observar que meus 40+ anos de convivência com o povão do Brasil desmente o disrespeito e grosseiria que você manifesta em sua resposta. Palavra, a arrogância não constitui prerequisito ao desacordo!
Some of your facts are simply incorrect. The Romans did in fact call the entire peninusula Hispania; the Greeks called it Iberia (see Wikipedia.org). Where did you get your facts? Please cite the source.
And, yes, Roman Hispania has consisted of many cultures and languages, the Basque predating the Roman invasion. Are you still unaware of the Catalans, the Basques, and the Galicians who even today preserve their own cultures and languages?
Spain and Hispanic today reference a nation, not an ethnicity. And, yes, over 2000 years, Portugal has in fact shared much of the history that Catalonia, Galicia, Andalucia, Castille, Asturias, etc., have all shared. And, yes, Brazilians--as a consequence of their Lusitanian heritage--have far more in common linguistically and culturally with their Iberian counterparts than do Spanish-surnamed, American-born and reared citizens who call themselves Hispanic even though they speak poor Spanish--if any at all.
If you can reply civilly and with respect, I shall look forward to hearing from you.
Homero One More Thing
The term LUSO-HISPANIC is the most stupid and uneducated thing I heard in my entire life. This term is OFFENSIVE and DISGRACEFUL for Brazilian and Portuguese people. As a professor of History and Geography that hurt my ears.You could call a Portuguese speaker a LUSO-IBERIAN or a Spanish sperak HISPANIC-IBERIAN but LUSO-HISPANIC is the stupidiest thing I heard in my life. Man you should be proud of you Hispanic culture and stop trying to infuse your culture and pride into our LUSOPHONE culture. LUSOPHONE culture and language are here for little over 1000 years and your stupid innacurate comment will NOT change it. Again the Romans used to call where Portugal is today LUSITANIA this is why the term LUSOPHONE (Lusófono) for the speakers of Portuguese and they culture. I can't stand stupidity and a imperialistic prepotence. THE TERM USED TO DEFINE PORTUGAL AND BRAZIL IS LUSO-BRAZILIAN (Luso-Brasileiro). Learn more about IBERIA and also more on Brazil, Portugal and LUSOPHONE world. Contact me if you want to talk about it.
Homero F. Brazilians are not HISPANICS at all...
You should learn more on the history of Iberia. Early Romans always called it Iberia and that same Iberia was divided in different colonies: Lusitania (where Portugal is today), Hispania (Spain today) which later was divided into Galicia, Baetica... and so on. I am sorry man but Portugal (ancient Lusitania) was always part of Iberia not Hispania. I know you are trying to make Brazil and Portugal hispanics nations but they are not. Doing that you are denying the LUSOPHONE language and culture. Both are countries are LUSOPHONE (Lusófonos). How can you talk about that if you don't know anything on Brazilian and Portuguese history and language?
In Geography and History we call Brazil LUSOPHONE AMERICA like we do with the USA and Canada when we call them Anglo America. All the Spanish speaking countries we call them HISPANIC AMERICA. The one speaks French we call FRANCO AMERICA. Your note shows in a very nasty and prepotent way that you are trying very hard to make Portugal and brazil part of the Hispanic world, but I am sorry you are completly wrong about that. We are proud of our language and culture and we are also proud to belong to the LUSOPHONE world. We have our own community and our own language academy. Of the Hispanic world the only thing is closest to us is Galicia, because the Galician dialect and the Galician culture is very close to Portuguese culture and language.
Concluding Brazilians have nothing to do with Hispanic culture or language (only the Latin connection from ROME). Brazil in reality has a very unique culture that for sure is deeply connect to Portugal. Homero finishing my comment remember BRAZIL is parte of the LUSOPHONE world and nothing you can do about it.
We Brazilians should continue making stronger our LUSOPHONE culture in Brazil and Portugal and also out there. By the way Portuguese is today the number six language by number of speakers in the world.
It all depends on origin
I'm Brazilian and i feel the term Hispanic does not include my country as a whole......We are in fact Lusophone not Hispanic.However when it comes to peoples origins,it can sometimes refer to Brazilians as well.Because quiet a lot of Brazilians are of direct Spanish background.Taking me 4 example I'm a Brazilian of Portuguese and Spanish descent...and i do consider myself Hispanic,Lusophone and Latin/latino. 4 me that only makes sense becuase thats my origins.
whoever says brazilians arent portuguese is well sadly mistaken.Up to 90% of brazilians are of full or partial portuguese descent.Personally im proud to be a brazilian of at least some of this descent and im also very proud of my spanish origins as well.
Brazilians are definatly latinos...this terms is not only 4 spanish speakers and desecenders but it includes any1 in the americas of Portuguese,Spanish,Italian,French n romanian roots.Besides the fact that most brazilians are full or partly portuguese there are large proportions of Spanish and Italian descenders as well-All of them latin peoples.....so therefore we are latinos. What i would like is just for all latin americans to see that we maybe of different types of latins but at the end of the day we are all 1 big family.
Once again: Brazilians Are Not Hispanic
Article of Alan P. Marcus for Brazzil magazine*
The terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" within the USA are conflicting. On the one hand they empower Spanish-speaking communities such as Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Cubans, but on the other hand, they grossly oversimplify Latin America and "racialize" Latin Americans.
Not all Latin American surnames are "Spanish surnames" nor do they end in "ez", (i.e.; Martinez, Lopez) particularly in Brazil. Here are a few examples of surnames of some of the several Brazilian presidents in the past 40 years, who do not have "Spanish surnames" nor do there surnames end in "ez": Kubitchek, Medici, Geisel, Sarney, Collor. In addition, here are some other examples of surnames of presidents from Spanish-speaking Latin American countries that also do not end in "ez" nor do they have "Spanish surnames": Stroessner, Fujimori, Menem, Pinochet, Fox, Kirschner.
A number of the diverse populations who migrated to Brazil include: Portugal, Italy, Poland, France, Germany, Lebanon, Syria, Japan, Russia, Austria, Turkey all of which are disengaged on several levels; medically, culturally, and ethnically from the "Hispanic-Latino" paradigms.
The Brazilian Immigrant Center (Centro Imigrante Brasileiro), in Allston, Massachusetts, was founded in 1995, and serves as a centralized office for Brazilian worker's rights, as well as a general information guide to new Brazilian immigrants. According to the founder and director of the Center, Fausto Mendes da Rocha, the Brazilian population in Massachusetts is calculated by estimating the number of Brazilians in church membership, attendance and services, Brazilian businesses, the telephone and e-mail inquiries received by the Immigrant Center in Allston, and the number of Brazilian newspapers in Massachusetts.
Rocha estimates that there are approximately 231,000 Brazilians living in Massachusetts in 2003, and approximately 1.2 million Brazilians living in the entire USA. These figures are higher to the unrealistically low US Census 2000 figures of 212,428 Brazilians living in the entire USA, and of 36,669 Brazilians living in Massachusetts. The estimated figures of 784,000 Brazilians living in the entire USA, and 200,000 in Massachusetts, from the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs are likely to represent more realistic figures.
The Brazilian population, according to Rocha, has changed since the 1990's, from a transitory one to a more stable and permanent one. This is because, according to him, during the 1990's, Brazilians were working for a year or two and then returning to Brazil, and now, he has noticed a large increase in the number of Brazilian home-ownerships as well as business-ownerships in the past four years, also indicating that Brazilians are no longer returning to Brazil.
According to an article ("O Eldorado Brilha Menos"—The Eldorado Shines Less), written by Eduardo Salgordo on January 16, 2002, in the Brazilian magazine Veja, there are an estimated 800,000 Brazilians living in the USA and 17,000 Brazilians living in Framingham, MA. These population figures for Framingham, MA, are also in accordance with the estimate figures given by The Brazilian Immigrant Center in Allston, MA.
The US Census does not list Brazilians as part of their breakdown of South Americans of "Hispanic" or "Latino" origin living in Massachusetts.
In 2003, the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has estimated that about 100,000 Brazilians leave Brazil per year, and about one-third of the 2 million Brazilians living abroad are illegal residents (Brazilian Times, Massachusetts, By Paulo Torrens, Aug. 15, 2003).
The studies of anthropologist Maxine Margolis (1998) "An Invisible Minority: Brazilians in New York City" point that in 1996 there was an estimated figure of over 600,000 Brazilians living in the entire USA. The official US Census 1990, estimated that there were 94,087 Brazilians living in the USA. According to Margolis, this figure was severely undercounted and the Brazilian population figures ought to be at least eighty percent higher. This undercount is attributed to several reasons, primarily because of the large unaccountability of undocumented Brazilians, who overstay their tourist visas to continue working in the USA, and fear that revealing any information will result in detection.
Another reason for the undercount, according to Margolis, is the confusion concerning the Census forms, since Brazilians are not Spanish-speaking Latin Americans and hence cannot and do not call themselves "Hispanic", they end up checking other options appears that if Brazilians are not counted, then in effect, they don't exist. For this reason, Margolis has called them the "invisible minority".
Problem of Terminology
The confusing terminology used by the US Census Bureau that give contextual life to a "Hispanic Population", that is, the term semantically migrates from the realm of the "imaginary" to the realm of "reality". Given the confusing semantic context of the interchangeable terms "Spanish", "Hispanic" and "Latino", as seen in US Census 2000, Brazilians mark the "No" box as instructed (i.e., "Mark the No box if not Spanish/Hispanic/Latino").
The US census in 1970 was the first to include a separate question specifically on "Hispanic origin". The term "Latino" appeared on the census form for the first time in 2000. The 1980 and 1990 censuses asked people if they were of "Spanish/Hispanic origin or descent" and then, to choose "Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, or other Spanish/Hispanic". A review of such ethnic categories would indicate the need for addressing a problem in order to establish the accurate count of Brazilian populations living in the USA. The misguided semantic problem, based on misinformation on Brazilian ethnic identities and complexities, is that Spanish language or ancestry, "Hispanic" and "Latino" are interchangeable.
"The terms "Spanish," "Hispanic origin," and "Latino" are used interchangeably. Some respondents identify with all three terms while others may identify with only one of these three specific terms."
Source: US Department of Commerce, US Census Bureau 2000, "Massachusetts: 2000 Summary Population and Housing Characteristics", Page B-8, Issued 2002: http://www.census.gov/prod/www/abs/briefs.html
The manifestations of the interchangeable terms "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" give life to the perpetuation of Latin American inaccuracies, stereotypes, and ascriptions particularly dissimilar to Brazilians.
The exclusion of Brazilians within the "Hispanic" and "Latino" paradigms in the US occurs for several reasons and in various ways. Firstly, Brazilians are not actively integrated or engaged within the US "Hispanic" or "Latino" political process, nor are they part of the significant US Spanish-speaking public discourse. Secondly, from a geo-political perspective, Brazil is further away from the US than countries such as Mexico, Puerto Rico, or Cuba; and in addition, the former three countries have shared a longer historical and political relationship with the US than Brazil. Thirdly, Brazilians are distinctly dissimilar from other Latin Americans within many dimensions (i.e., linguistically, culturally, historically, ethnically).
The Portuguese language spoken in Brazil, Brazilian ethnicity, and Brazilian culture are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino". The Jeitinho Brasileiro ("The Brazilian way"), the Jogo Bonito ("The Beautiful Game", a Brazilian reference to Brazilian-style soccer) and Samba (Unique Brazilian Samba music), are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino". In addition, the Brazilian raison d'être is devoid of any relationship within the "Hispanic-Latino" paradigms.
In a sense, "Hispanic" and "Latino" have inaccurately "racialized" all Latin Americans, and have thus "latinamericanized" all of Latin America monolithically and homogenously.
The implication is that there is an illusory "Hispanic" or "Latino" "race" or that there is a single imaginary country where "Hispanics" and "Latinos" come from, and of course, neither is true.
*Alan P. Marcus (Master's of Science in Geography in progress) is a Brazilian living in the USA. He has also written other articles on Brazilian issues on identity, "race", ethnicity, and animal ethics for Brazzil magazine.
Entenderam??
some Hispanic undestend what Tarso says on the comment before??
Tarso Hora
Sou Brasileiro, e muito me impressiona essa discussão que toma espaço nesse sítio.
Antes de qualquer coisa, desejo justificar o fato de preferir me expressar em português, língua falada em todo o território brasileiro. Sou professor de Língua Portuguesa, Literatura Brasileira e Inglesa, História e Estudos Sociais, e só isso seria motivo suficiente para que eu me utilize desse idioma, mas além disso há o fato de que se está discutindo sobre o Brasil e sobre a língua falada no Brasil.
Os brasileiros deveriam ser reconhecidos nos Estados Unidos e em qualquer outro lugar do mundo, simplesmente como brasileiros. As denominações, Latinos e Hispânicos são completamente equivocadas, pois trazem nelas a tentativa de classificar as pessoas dentro da sociedade em que vivem. Uma classificação hierárquica, carregada de preconceito, que leva a tratamentos diferenciados por parte dos nativos da terra (os estadunidenses) que são o grupo que criou os termos aqui discutidos. Em nenhum país latino-americano essa discussão seria cabida. Imaginem brasileiros se tratando como latinos uns aos outros, situação impensada.
Acredito que nós, oriundos de todos os países latino-americanos deveríamos instruir todos que utilizam esses termos. Não podemos deixá-los vivendo na ignorância em que vivem, desconhecendo tudo que está fora de suas fronteiras. Um bom conselho que podemos dar é para que viagem mais, conheçam outros países e outras culturas e aprendam a conviver com as diferenças, que são muitas em toda a América Latina.
Brasileiros são Brasileiros, Mexicanos são Mexicanos, Argentinos são Argentinos, Colombianos são Colombianos e assim por diante. De outra forma teremos que chamar os estadunidenses de anglos ou Britches, coisa que eles não gostariam muito.
No mais é bom saber: o Brasil foi colonizado por portugueses. A península ibérica foi formada da união e divisão sucessiva de pele menos sete reinos distintos, ecorrendo após a queda do império romano, por volta do ano 400 da nossa Era: Reino de Navarra, Reino de Aragão, Reino de Catela, Reino de Leão, Reino das Astúrias, Reino da Galiza, Reino de Portugal. Como se vê, o nome Portugal é pelo menos 600 anos mais velho do que o nome Espanha, que só foi utilizado com a união dos reinos de Castela e Leão.
Tenham um bom dia.
Happy New Year
Why can't we all just get along!!!!!
Jennifer Rivera
Hispanic is SPAIN not Brazil, Mexico, or Argentinian
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am. try typing "hispania" in google images and tell me what comes out.... do we use the term hispanic wrong? I think soo...
Thanks,
Viva Espana!
Hispanic is SPAIN not Brazil, Mexico, or Argentinian
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am. try typing "hispania" in google images and tell me what comes out.... do we use the term hispanic wrong? I think soo...
Thanks,
Viva Espana!
I have lived in the US the
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am. try typing "hispania" in google images and tell me what comes out.... do we use the term hispanic wrong? I think soo...
Thanks,
Viva Espana!
I have lived in the US the
I have lived in the US the last two years and lived all around Latin America during 8 years. Argentina is the most European country in America, it is full of white people, if they are Hispanic and im not, then there is something wrong with the world. "Hispania" roman word for The Iberic peninsula and there is where the Spanish name “Espana“ comes from, a word with a pretty similar pronunciation, therefore, if I am from Spain I AM HISPANIC, Latin Americans are called Hispanics, because people are not smart or interested enough to look at the roots of the word. I am Hispanic, if was born in the Iberic peninsula, not in Mexico or Brazil. the proper term for Latin speakers (Portuguese, Spanish, French) in America is Latin Americans, not Hispanics. That is what I am.
Thanks,
Viva Espana!
Hispanics = spanish speaking
Brazilians speak portuguese, not spanish. Brazil is in South America and brazilians derive their language and culture from Portugal.
Latin america is not all necessarily all spanish speaking, so to answer your question, you can have a LATIN association, in addition to a HISPANIC association, but don't change it.
Brazilians are no more
hispanic than African Cape Verdians
Brazil is not even "Latin-American". It is Lusophone America..
It's prejudicial to analyse all the "latin" countries as they all are the same. Very big mistake and result of despise.
It's a reducionismo. The "region" is very wide, it's impossible to analyse it as if it would be a entire and homogeneous "piece".
"Latin America" is a imposed stereotype for the nations beyond the USA board, fruit of the ignorance of developed countries which have an oversimplified conception about them.
"Latin America" is a geographical concept created only to separated USA (and Canada) from the "rest", in the Americas.
And It's erroneous because not every countries in it speak a latin-derived language. For example, Suriname speak dutch, Jamaica
(english), Bahamas (english) etc.
In this context Brazil is practically a region apart. Continental and the unique country that always spoke Portuguese (and not Spanish as some "developed" ignorants think) Brazil is culturally, economically and politically very diferent of Hispanic and others countries of "Latin America".
Economically Brazil is more linked with countries of other continents than its neighbours in South America. Politically is very different -- today it shows a leftist color but in the true is a centrist government -- and the Brazilian political issues are very peculiar and endogenous, nothing to do with Venezuela, Argentina or Mexico politics. Culturally is a world apart: racial mix, social behaviour, music, literature, folklore, cinema, culinary, fashion, even the ethnic type (you can identify a Brazilian just visually), etc, is very distinct from the stereotypical "latin" country concept. It's hard to compare Brazil with a Mexico or Argentina, for example.
Certainly even the Hispanic countries are very different between them.
It's not because there are poverty, corruption, illiteracy or urban violence that countries are the same. Remember: those are characteristc of all poor nations, in Asia, África or Eastern Europe, not only in "Latin America".
So to put all the nations beyond USA board in the same box is prejudicial and a misinformation.
reply to ecos14
Are you from the USA? With all due respect, if you are NOT a Native American, most of us probably tied your boat.
portugal from spain
first of all portugese is a latin language, second, portugal was once from spain, and portugese is a derivative from a spainish language, galician, therefore, there might be luso... whatever, but they are still latin americans
Portuguese NEVER was derivative from Spanish.
"Nanillo" is a lier and megalomaniac.
Portugal never was a "territory" of Spain. By the contrary, the Portugueses were a big power during the Era of Discovery.
Very lie: the Portuguese never was "derivative" from spanish. Both languages were developed on the same time. They have some similarity because the proximity of both countries. Only this. It's a spain's region, Galícia, that speak a language derivative of Portuguese.
Spain, of course, reject the galego as a dialect of Portuguese. Political reasons... If Spain admit it Galícia might want to get out. But cientiffically the Galícia's language is considered a dialect variant form Portuguese.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Língua_portuguesa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language
A BIIIIIG INFERIORITY COMPLEX from some Hispanics
I don't know why many hispanics have this "thing" when Brazilians say they are not hispanics. Porra! Brazilians never was hispanics, we NEVER spoke Spanish!
(*That blablabla of "hispânia" is a fraud, intellectually dishonest. Greece, Germany, slavic people, etc, were integrants of the Roman Empire (which spoke latin) but they were not and are not "latinos" or Romans.)
It seems a very big inferiority complex. Why some hispanics want to force others to be "hispanics" or "latins" if those others are not hispanics neither like to be reduced to the "latin" sterotype? Are you ethnical orphans? If only the spanish-speaking people are considered "latin" this is a humiliation or disregard? Aren’t you proud of your cultural identity, is it necessary to have others to give "bright" to it?
If I was a hispanic I would not worry a split second if Brazilians are not hispanics or if they never feel themselves like "latins".
Sorry but that "dissatisfaction" about Brazilians have other language and cultural identity means a big inferiority complex. Brazilians is culturally and ethnically very more near to Portugueses, Angolans and others african-lusophones than the hispanics. Even the itallians and germans had more influence in Brazilian culture than spaniards.
Brazilians don't need other (false) definition or "classification" than "Brazilians". It is more than sufficient.
******
From academic sources:
"A Colombian, Mexican and Spaniard would all be Hispanics, but not the Brazilian or the Romanian, since Brazil was colonized by the Portuguese, and neither Portugal nor Romania is an extension of Spain."
"Due to the fact that "Latino" is generally recognized, incorrectly by the average American as a synonym of "Hispanic", some Brazilians (Portuguese speakers), when included under the Latino definition may or may not feel comfortable. Other non-Spanish speaking people originating from other Latin American countries may feel similarly due to the perceived negation of their language and diverse ethnic heritage by the generalization of the term.
The two terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" are not strictly interchangeable. The latter term applies to any American with origins in any Latin American country, including Brazilian Americans, although as already noted, not all Brazilian Americans accept the designation. "Hispanic", however, applies to Americans with origins in the Latin American countries other than Brazil; i.e., it only applies to Americans with origins in Hispanic America - the Spanish-speaking countries of Latin America. The Hispanic American countries are cultural descendants of Spain; Brazil is a cultural descendant of Portugal."
No big deal being called Hipano but Latino is more apropriate
Although Protugueses and Spanishes have a comon heritage and were toegether for centuries in History, Hipano is a word directly related to Spain and to the Spanish language. It is a restricted group of persons that have something in common, the Spanish languagethat has been herited from Spanish colonization.
Latino is a more generic classification. It certainly includes French, Italians, Brazilians, Hispanics, Romanians, etc.
In US your race is supposed to be White, Black, Indian or Hispanic. Hispanic being defined as someone from South/Central Amercia regardless of race. This is certainly a bad classification and also include people that speaks other languages, like in Jamaica or Haiti.
Brazilians just cannot see themselves belonging to the Hispanic group but are not against the common heritage and certainly identifies themselves with all the other groups in Latin America. We share many roots, habits, environment, food, etc.
In US we see ouselves as brothers, very close to anyone coming from any place outside US.
It is not a big deal to be classified as Hispanic for a Brazilian but it just doesn't seem right. It is more apropriate to be included in the Latino group, origin of our language and common roots.
Brazilians Are Hispanics
I was born in Brazil but now live in USA & All my white, hispanic & black friends consider brazilians hispanics & i agree. All hispanic countries have the same culture as we do.I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BRAZILIANS ARE NOT PORTUGUESE!!! just because we speak the language doesnt mean anything.
Are chickens... ducks ?
As we've seen on this forum, there are lots of geographic and historical facts that are being used to claim that Brazilians are _NOT_ hispanic (and I personally agree with that. I agree that the brazilian culture is, in many ways, very similar of the rest of latin america/south america/hispanics; However, similarity is not an argument to say that brazilians are hispanic, otherwise, we could also say that ducks and chickens are the same. They are _similar_, but not the same.)The fact that your "white, hispanic and black" friends consider brazilians as hispanics is not a valid argument, and doesn't change anything (during the WW2, Aryans considered themselves a superior race, but that doesn't mean that they were).What happens, in my opinion, is that people have a great tendency to "generalize", mainly because that's what they were taught since their childhood (by school, by the society where he lived, or simply because he never cared or needed to know the right way). Just misinformation. Chineses are not japaneses, and koreans are not chineses. Not every japanese is buddhist. Afeganistans are not pakistans (and hey, they aren't terrorists). Brazilians are not hispanic, and mexicans are not brazilians, but both are latins.In my opinion, we shouldn't be asking ourselves why brazilians are or aren't hispanic or why chinese people like to eat dogs. We should be asking: why grown up people reach their majority after spend (waste?) several years on education, without understanding that they live in a world of 6 billions of persons, with something like 243 countries and self-governing entities, and that they are DIFFERENT from each other? Without even knowing the basics of the world where they live ? Learned to understand and respect the cultural differences that exists among us, humans ?
I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR
I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BRAZILIANS ARE NOT PORTUGUESE!!!
No one said Brazilians were Portuguese, just like Mexicans and every people from Spanish-speaking countries are spanish.
Like i said both cultures ( portuguese and spanish ) are so similar that i feel like they are both entwined. So as Portuguese i feel myself hispanic, and i think the same applies to Brazilian!!
Um grande abraço pra toda galera brazuca
Brazileiros, nao Hispanos
I grew up in America and was born in Brazil as well. I love the Hispanic culture and find it captivating, but I would be wrong to agree with you that as a Brazilian I am Hispanic. I can say we are Latin, but Hispanics are only those that are of Spanish origin and their countries speak Spanish. Brazilians was conquered by Portuguese conquistadors, not Spanish, therefore we speak Portuguese, not Spanish, and that makes us of Brazilian/Latin descent, not Spanish/Hispanic/Latin.
Stay well,
Memphis Carolina
I was born in Brazil but now
I was born in Brazil but now live in USA & All my white, hispanic & black friends consider brazilians hispanics & i agree. All hispanic countries have the same culture as we do.I ALSO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BRAZILIANS ARE NOT PORTUGUESE!!! just because we speak the language doesnt mean anything.
As Portuguese, i feel like i
As Portuguese, i feel like i should clarify somethings that have been the topic of this post. First and foremost, Hispania was the name given to the Iberian Peninsula and it was constituted by different roman provinces: Hispania ulterior ( Andalucia,Portugal,Extremadura,Galicia,Asturias,a part of Castilla,etc.) and Hispania Citerior ( The eastern part of Castilla,Arágon,Valencia,Cataluña,etc. ).In my opinion, Brazilians are both hispanics and latinos,because they speak a latin language and share a latin culture, like every latin countries, and they are hispanics ( in some ways ),because Portugal was a part of what was designated as Hispania, let's not forget the words of one of the greatest portuguese poets of all time, Luis de Camões, "Castillans and Portuguese: for Hispanioles we all are. Even though im Portuguese, and Portugal has a long kind-of-rivalry tradition with Spain, i consider Spaniards as my brothers due to the language and mediterranian culture similarity, por esso, tambien me considero Hispanico en un sentido histórico.
Brazilian and Spanish-Americans are brothers! NSLP is best!
Brazilians and Spaniards
"Latin America" is a very misleading notion per se and should be abolished by educated Americans. It has long been used to refer to a region that not only has totally different languages but also different cultures - Portuguese and Spanish. This concept derives from the widespread American disinterest about Geography and oversimplistic assumptions and discriminatory attitudes brought about during daily contact with Mexicans.
Furthermore, the Romans used the Latin language as the legal and commercial idiom to trade and regulate businesses – in detriment of all languages spoken in the conquered regions. This directive served to spread and consolidate the Roman economic power and enable faster assimilation and appreciation of the Roman culture in the daily life, inducing less revolts. As all England, Spain, Portugal and France were conquered and dominated by the Romans by many centuries, cult Americans from all countries in fact consider the term “Latin America” as consisting in “all countries in America that were deeply affected by the Latin idiom and the Roman culture”. This definition thus encompasses ALL countries in the American Continent - with the exception of the regions were the native American languages and cultures are still alive, in both hemispheres.
Approaching now the core question: In spite of originating from the same European Iberian peninsula, the Portuguese people had much less territory to harvest than its Spanish neighbors and so were much more dependant on the sea. In short, a small nation with many competent sailors. They traveled more all around the world and sooner than the XV century Spaniards. They believed that much could be gained from learning far cultures - not only merchandise but also much knowledge. The Portuguese culture has a much different view and respect towards foreign lands and foreign cultures, and thus react/assimilate” the Roman Empire at a different level. Common Portuguese and Spanish people however have ALWAYS treated themselves like brothers in the past centuries (I cannot say the same in regard to XV-XVI century governments and their military).
Later on, the expansion of the XV century Portuguese Empire, was originated not only from the belief that much commercial profit could be gained from far cultures, but also valuable strategic knowledge. This was the basic reason why the Portuguese crown directed the elaboration of the famous Portulano maps, commercial trade routes, and a directive to all sea commanders to study and explore foreign cultures and economies in a non destructive way - very different from that of the Spanish sea commanders.
Consequently, the interaction of Portuguese sailors with foreign natives could be a "little more peaceful" (IF we can say that any colonizer of that time could really be called peaceful...), organized and mutually beneficial than those promoted by the Spanish. The Portuguese colonized not only several regions of Africa and Asia but also South America, through a relatively “peaceful” contact with the local population - trying to build pacific ties and agree on land-sharing principles with them before establishing their colonies. The Spaniards on the contrary, did not bother to pacific or agree with no local population in a sustainable way - they simply tried to exterminate all who opposed them. The main consequence of these facts is that Brazilians have a much broader respect and interest for foreigners and foreign cultures, and our indian population was more easily and quickly intermingled with the colonizers. This fact is reflected in our cultures and languages in such a strong way that Spaniards cannot grasp what we are saying even though we can understand them perfectly. Without any disrespect, we can say that the Portuguese idiom is MUCH richer in verb tenses, words, synonyms and idioms than the Spanish idiom.
Outsiders say our modern cultures look very similar and our people use to embrace and host each other in such a strong way that they think unthinkable. However, even though we love our neighbors, share thousands of values, faiths, beliefs, customs, songs and cultural issues, and immediately grant them the status of our international representatives in forums and competitions, we also are somehow dissimilar in some values and traditions. On the other hand, even look-alike brothers may also have some different tastes and points of view. This is why I think we are brother-like peoples and should NOT be separated, especially when facing the outside world.
Therefore, Brazil cannot be categorized in the same cultural and economic region as the remaining South American countries colonized by Spain. It is simply not fair and does not reflect the real truth. The vast majority of the countries in the world do not refer to Brazil as being Latin American, but as being South American - including the Europeans. Again, this is a totally misleading term, employed only by Americans (British and Australians do not use it also) who do not know Brazil and want to simplify notions - in a very biased way.
But the bottom line is that, even though we are not the same, we are still BROTHER peoples who treat and respect each other like real good brothers do! Let's all vote for changing NSHP into NSLP!
Luiz Cruz
Brazilian and Spanish-Americans are brothers! NSLP is best!
Brazilians and Spaniards
"Latin America" is a very misleading notion per se and should be abolished by educated Americans. It has long been used to refer to a region that not only has totally different languages but also different cultures - Portuguese and Spanish. This concept derives from the widespread American disinterest about Geography and oversimplistic assumptions and discriminatory attitudes brought about during daily contact with Mexicans.
Furthermore, the Romans used the Latin language as the legal and commercial idiom to trade and regulate businesses – in detriment of all languages spoken in the conquered regions. This directive served to spread and consolidate the Roman economic power and enable faster assimilation and appreciation of the Roman culture in the daily life, inducing less revolts. As all England, Spain, Portugal and France were conquered and dominated by the Romans by many centuries, cult Americans from all countries in fact consider the term “Latin America” as consisting in “all countries in America that were deeply affected by the Latin idiom and the Roman culture”. This definition thus encompasses ALL countries in the American Continent - with the exception of the regions were the native American languages and cultures are still alive, in both hemispheres.
Approaching now the core question: In spite of originating from the same European Iberian peninsula, the Portuguese people had much less territory to harvest than its Spanish neighbors and so were much more dependant on the sea. In short, a small nation with many competent sailors. They traveled more all around the world and sooner than the XV century Spaniards. They believed that much could be gained from learning far cultures - not only merchandise but also much knowledge. The Portuguese culture has a much different view and respect towards foreign lands and foreign cultures, and thus react/assimilate” the Roman Empire at a different level. Common Portuguese and Spanish people however have ALWAYS treated themselves like brothers in the past centuries (I cannot say the same in regard to XV-XVI century governments and their military).
Later on, the expansion of the XV century Portuguese Empire, was originated not only from the belief that much commercial profit could be gained from far cultures, but also valuable strategic knowledge. This was the basic reason why the Portuguese crown directed the elaboration of the famous Portulano maps, commercial trade routes, and a directive to all sea commanders to study and explore foreign cultures and economies in a non destructive way - very different from that of the Spanish sea commanders.
Consequently, the interaction of Portuguese sailors with foreign natives could be a "little more peaceful" (IF we can say that any colonizer of that time could really be called peaceful...), organized and mutually beneficial than those promoted by the Spanish. The Portuguese colonized not only several regions of Africa and Asia but also South America, through a relatively “peaceful” contact with the local population - trying to build pacific ties and agree on land-sharing principles with them before establishing their colonies. The Spaniards on the contrary, did not bother to pacific or agree with no local population in a sustainable way - they simply tried to exterminate all who opposed them. The main consequence of these facts is that Brazilians have a much broader respect and interest for foreigners and foreign cultures, and our indian population was more easily and quickly intermingled with the colonizers. This fact is reflected in our cultures and languages in such a strong way that Spaniards cannot grasp what we are saying even though we can understand them perfectly. Without any disrespect, we can say that the Portuguese idiom is MUCH richer in verb tenses, words, synonyms and idioms than the Spanish idiom.
Outsiders say our modern cultures look very similar and our people use to embrace and host each other in such a strong way that they think unthinkable. However, even though we love our neighbors, share thousands of values, faiths, beliefs, customs, songs and cultural issues, and immediately grant them the status of our international representatives in forums and competitions, we also are somehow dissimilar in some values and traditions. On the other hand, even look-alike brothers may also have some different tastes and points of view. This is why I think we are brother-like peoples and should NOT be separated, especially when facing the outside world.
Therefore, Brazil cannot be categorized in the same cultural and economic region as the remaining South American countries colonized by Spain. It is simply not fair and does not reflect the real truth. The vast majority of the countries in the world do not refer to Brazil as being Latin American, but as being South American - including the Europeans. Again, this is a totally misleading term, employed only by Americans (British and Australians do not use it also) who do not know Brazil and want to simplify notions - in a very biased way.
But the bottom line is that, even though we are not the same, we are still BROTHER people who treat and respect each other like real good brothers do! Let's all vote for changing NSHP into NSLP!
Luiz Cruz
Hi everyone, I couldn't
Hi everyone, I couldn't avoid getting involved in this discussion so here I go. :D
-I've seen some people say Poland, Greece and other countries are Latin, well they are not. Poland is Slavic and Greece is Greek (duh...). Countries like Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Moldova (Europe's poorest country) ARE LATIN.
-Romanian is probably the strangest Latin language and probably the toughest to understand for us Latins, because it has a lot of Slavic borrowed words. Romanian is Daco-Romance. =)
-Someone said that "Portugal isn't part of the Iberian Peninsula, if you want to refer to Spain and Portugal you should say *Luso-Iberian Peninsula*...". This is totally wrong. "Iberia" is not the same as "Spain", "Hispania" is, in fact in the times of the Roman Empire, the province was referred as "Hispania" (and the word "España" comes from it). The correct term to refer to both countries/languages is "Luso-Hispanic".
-Also, "Hispania" WAS NOT THE NAME FOR THE WHOLE PENINSULA (as I said before) AND THE ROMANS (FROM THE ROMAN EMPIRE) USED THE WORD "LUSITANIA" TO NAME THE PROVINCE THAT NOWADAYS IS PORTUGAL.
-Brazil is Latin. =)
-But whatever, the subject here is if Brazilians are Hispanic and I see many Brazilians here annoyed about it. It's surprising not to see Portugese spoken ("writen"...). OK, I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I would say it's "Semi-Hispanic" =) because Portugal is "funny Spanish". By this, I'm not saying Portuguese is a dialect from Spanish, not at all, but Portugal is so linked to Spain and Brazilians can't deny they can understand Spanish although many pretend they do, lol.
Some quick things to add is that:
-Portugal was part of Spain until the 13th century.
-Someone in this forum said "Brazil was not conquered by Spain, but it was conquered by Portugal...". Well you know, the Portuguese colony in South America started out small and then got bigger. Portuguese settlers started moving west and took the land from Spain (as it was established in their treaty). Even lately, Brazil has taken land from my country (Peru), lol. In fact, 80% OF WHAT IS NOW BRAZIL WAS FORMERLY SPANISH.
-Portuguese and Spanish are so similar that in the boundaries between Portuguese and Spanish-speaking countries "Portuñol" (Portunhol) is spoken.
To conclude this, I don't know why Brazilians get annoyed being called "Hispanic", I wouldn't mind being called "Portuguese" or "Lusophone" or even "Brazilian". This part of the Latin family is so linked together (history, language, religion, etc...), together the luso-hispanic block sums more than 500 million (half a billion... wow). Brazilians don't deny you can understand Spanish (unless it's Mexican Spanish... lol, joking), you're "Semi-Hispanic" as I am "Semi-Lusophone". ;)
¡Buenas Noches! Boa Noite!
From another Brazilian
I am Brazilian and I feel that although we speak Portuguese and not Spanish, on a broader sense (both historically and culturally), all Latinos have a close inheritance and should be considered as one large group.
I fully support adding "Latino" to the name of group to avoid any misunderstanding with regards to the language.
Should Brazilians consider themselves Hispanics?
I am Brazilian and I do not consider myself Hispanic. Hispanics are of Spanish origin, they were conquered by Spanish Conquistadors and Brazil was not, we were conquered by the Portuguese Conquistadors. That is why we speak Portuguese and not Spanish.
Now when it comes to being Latin, many other countries fall into this category. Latin is a dead language that the following romance languages derived from: Italian, French, Portuguese, Spanish and Romanian, therefore Hispanics are not the only people of Latin descent.
Stay well,
Memphis Carolina
Hispanics are not the only Latins!!!
Here is the history of Latin cultures I learned going to college in Brasil, where I was born and raised:
Latin, the root of the romantic languages and spoken by the ancient Romans, branched out in five different languages as the Roman Empire expanded throughout Europe. These languages are: Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian and Romenian. The great distances made it difficult for constant communication and the Mother Language Latin eventually changed according to the different regions and were also influenced by the neighboring cultures as the years passed.
Italian, the closest language to Latin, remained spoken in the more modern Rome in its vicinities. From Rome toward the East and closer to the slavick neighbors, it branched out to Romenian. Moving Northwest (from Rome) the language changed to French. Going farther West to the region then called "Hispania" hence the term "Hispanic", the language became Spanish. Later the region's named spelling was changed to España (Spain). Moving Southwest from "Hispania" was the region then called "Portu Calé" (Port Calé) where the language took another twist from the Gallego and Catalán - both from the Southern part of "Hispania". "Portu Calé" eventually became Portugal and the language Portuguese.
So, Brazilians are as Latin as anyone from the Spanish Latin America. Also Latin, are people from Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, and Romenia. As you can see, limiting the term "Latin" or "Latino" to Spanish speaking Latin Americans only is wrong and I am sorry to say....very declassé. Quite embarrassing if you ask me...
Thank you. Obrigada.
frances
I totally agree with you. I live in New York, and calling Hispanics Latinos it's very irritating to me. I keep correcting everyone, but it is exhausting. Unfortunately, the media, which has the duty of educating, is the first to commit the atrocity (not intended to hurt anyone's feeling). I do believe everything should be called by its own name, why calling José like Juan when José and Juan are different people? Their names are similar, they are both males, but they are not the same. Please do not confuse Latin and Hispanic; they are different adjectives with different meanings.
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo. Vivo en Nueva York, y me irrita escuchar a la gente llamar latino a los hispanos. Corrijo a todo el que lo dice frente a mí, pero es muy agotante. Desafortunadamente, los medios informativos son los primeros en cometer el gran error, de hecho, lo considero una atrocidad lingüística, o mejor dicho semántica. Son los medios informativos los que deben educar la sociedad, no desinformarla. Cada debe llamarse por su nombre, o ¿Cómo vamos a llamar a Jose por el nombre de Juan, cuando son dos personas totalmente diferente? El que tengan un nombre parecido y los dos sean hombres no significa que Juan y Jose sean la misma persona. Por favor, no confundan “latino” con “hispano”.
Frances Rivera Anaya
frances
correcting everyone, but it is exhausting. Unfortunately, the media, which has the duty of educating, is the first to commit the atrocity (not intended to hurt anyone's feeling). I do believe everything should be called by its own name, why calling José like Juan when José and Juan are different people? Their names are similar, they are both males, but they are not the same. Please do not confuse Latin and Hispanic; they are different adjectives with different meanings.
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo. Vivo en Nueva York, y me irrita escuchar a la gente llamar latino a los hispanos. Corrijo a todo el que lo dice frente a mí, pero es muy agotante. Desafortunadamente, los medios informativos son los primeros en cometer el gran error, de hecho, lo considero una atrocidad lingüística, o mejor dicho semántica. Son los medios informativos los que deben educar la sociedad, no desinformarla. Cada debe llamarse por su nombre, o ¿Cómo vamos a llamar a Jose por el nombre de Juan, cuando son dos personas totalmente diferente? El que tengan un nombre parecido y los dos sean hombres no significa que Juan y Jose sean la misma persona. Por favor, no confundan “latino” con “hispano”.
Frances Rivera Anaya
Brazilians are not Hispanic!!!!
Any well-educated people know that. The meaning of the Hispanic word is related to any Spanish-speaking people, thus, all those who speak Spanish are Hispanic. In addition, “Hispanic” is not related to any specific region or color; you just need to speak Spanish to be classified as Hispanic. We Brazilians speak Portuguese, so we are not Hispanic.
However, The Latin word means any language that has it origins from the Latin and it does not matter the region too. Just as examples of Latin countries: Poland, Italy, France, Greek, Scotland, Croatia, Belgium and many others that are called the Latin European Countries. Nevertheless, the mostly Latin people are the Italians, because the Latin language was originated in Italy and expanded throughout the Europe with the Roman Emperor. Therefore, many Americans and others as well, are stupid and uneducated to know the difference between Hispanic and Latin. Actually, any Hispanic will be Latin, but not all Latin will be Hispanic, examples: Brazilians, Greek people, and Italians. (Helloo! We don’t speak Spanish…).
However, sometimes is better for us to classify ourselves as Hispanic. I’m a computer scientist graduated from Rutgers University, NJ. Moreover, I learned that sometimes, we have to fill some forms which ask us if we are White, Hispanic, or White not Hispanic. Many Brazilians mark down “white not Hispanic” There is one reason for these questions, and it is to verify in which group you are belong. If you are looking for a scholarship, a hospital charity care, or filling an emergence room form. You would be surer to gain what you are looking for if you mark as Hispanic because you will be classified as “MINORITY people” and they have more grants for these people. If you mark “White not Hispanic”, they will think you are European, and they will think you are wealthier than the Hispanics and will place you on hold and take care of the minority first.
Brazilian as hispanics
As a son of Brazilian parents born in the US, I am very proud of my heritage and I do not consider myself Hispanic but Latin. Now, I disagree with the comment made that Brazilians do not consider themselves Luso-Brazilians. Well, most of my great-grandparents are Portuguese and I am proud of that and I try to cultivate some of that culture to pass down to my kids. I am also a descendent of French and Japanese and proud of them too. I have cousins who are Italians, others Lebanese, and others Germans and Dutch. We are all Brazilians but also proud of our heritage in our ways. Now, in college I came across a PoliSci class where my teacher said that term "Latin America" only applies to Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries but not to the french ones. I was appalled, and I had to argue with the teacher about it (being part French myself I should know better than him). So he did not consider the French a Latin people. He lacked the understanding that "Latin people" is not a race but a linguistic group. The Luso-Iberian people are not the same people as the Italians where Latin came from anyway. But culturally, the French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish have a lot in common - the language, some customs, and personalities.
Other point is, Edward James Olmos came to my college and said that the only real "Latin-American" is one who is of Indian-white mix. I protested right there on the spot. That was the most stupid thing I ever heard! And that coming from someone who should know better. So Pele, my Germanic step-mom, and myself include are not consider Latin-American. Does he know how many people in South America does not have any native blood?!!! Get real. That kind of crap is that makes the general American public so confused about the people south of the Rio Grande. Just call Brazilians Brazilians, Argentinians Argentians, French French, etc... That would be better.
i think there not
japense people speak japense, chinese people speak chinese, there both asians. so i think brasilains are hispanic