I really get annoyed that people who know nothing about my culture try to impose their own preconceived notions about my racial ancestry. But the worst part about the "hispanic" tag is where it relates to medicine. There are all sorts of statistics about what diseases hispanics are predisposed to, but I know of several diagnoses that just don't fit the mold. This is a dangerous label.
What you are is the present culture YOU live--, even if it is a “hybrid”, not the one your ancestors had 500 years ago. Your culture is the way YOU think, you behave, you LIVE (sometimes…even regardless of the cultures that surround you).
I am Puerto Rican, and by looking at me, or listening to me, or looking at my last name, like many other Hispanics, you could not tell what country could I possibly come from. Like many Latinos, I have a variety of countries of ancestry...my ancestors are Basque, Spaniards, Dutch, French, Italian, Egyptian, and I am sure there's got to be Taíno somewhere.... I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and by US Census definition I am first generation US born...
My culture and ways of thinking and being...though, are usually very different from first generation Americans. And somewhat similar to other people who are in "hybrid" culture situations, multilingual, and educated-- beyond institutionalized education.
I am a marketing research professional, so I am going to write about what goes on behind classyfying people by race-- for money making purposes.
WE ARE EXPERIENCING a demographic reinvention and movement towards a global community. Generations of transnational mobility, intermarriage and cultural give and takes have yielded new arrangements of people, identities, and social practices that are challenging the definitions of self and the usefulness of racial categories for marketing purposes.
Not that America — the nation of immigrants — wasn’t diverse before, but before the Civil Rights movement, diversity was not a good thing. Assimilation (melting into the common pot) was the ultimate objective.
Prior to the mid 70’s, when cultural anthropologist Margaret Mead announced that “Being American is a matter of abstention from foreign ways, foreign food, foreign ideas, foreign accents”, people suffered for being different. Parents struggled to ensure their children assimilated to the mass, spoke English, and rid themselves of “foreign signs”, such as speaking a language other than English, having a foreign accent, dressing foreign clothes.
Many immigrants escaped a strict European caste system, political and religious persecution to a land of equal opportunity. An idea so contradictory to the notion of slavery could only be justified if enslaved humans in America were perceived to be of an inferior subhuman type.
And so was born the color-coding system that rationalized that this Land of Equal Opportunity — and freedom — was so, for those in the superior color category. Jews, Italians, Irish, all went through the color struggle that Blacks, Latin Americans, Asians, Indigenous people still face.
Whiteness has always been a perceived category for many — and a physical one when it comes to excluding people of darker skin, regardless of origin.
Today, now that being unique is good there is no need to assimilate to anything. And some are even looking back and digging into their ancestral trunks and reviving customs and identifications from their origins. In the meantime, while we are working to recognize that diversity is good — and that colors look better together than by themselves— some structures have not changed to match this trend.
I want to bring to your attention one of those: the segmentation system we habitually use- just like driving back home from work or putting deodorant every morning. It simply divides humans/consumers into color, a.k.a. racial, categories: White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian.
For instance, in the United States, marketers, researchers, advertising agencies and media often treat "Hispanics" as a separate group from Whites, Blacks and Asians, when "Hispanics" actually include people who identify also with one or more of the aforementioned racial groups, or with neither- as is the case of those who identify with indigenous tribes, or a mix of 'races'.
Additionally, the term “Hispanic” often wrongly classifies people of 23 different nationalities spread out from Europe, to the Caribbean, from North America to the South Pole, into a common pool, assuming they all share a language, cultural traits, consumer behavior, or degree of foreign identity (if any).
People who technically would be considered White per US Census definition are easily dropped by marketers to the category of “people of color, multicultural, non-mainstream” if they speak with an accent, speak fluently a language other than (even including) English, and/or come from certain European, North African, or East Asian countries such as Spaniards, Basques, Portuguese, Lebanese, or Arabs.
Language is not a racial category, but if a person “speaks, understands or “should” speak Spanish”, regardless of their race, he/she gets placed into the Hispanic or Latino category. Language is still being treated as if it were a race.
The U.S. government — the entity behind the 1980 invention of the term Hispanic, claims the purpose of dividing people into color segments (a.k.a. racial/ethnic segments) as necessary (evil?) to “identify and help minority groups”.
Labels, however, tend to bring a set of distinguishing characteristics, so once a person is labeled (White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American) he/she is expected to be a certain way and behave accordingly to what is known of one of their kind.
And that brings problems.
The problem with selling a generic "Hispanic" identity is that it often results in over-generalizing a population that is hardly alike, running the risk of getting a client (or vendor) that is uneducated in such matters-- in trouble (read loss of revenue or cost of staying in business).
Unfortunately (or fortunately if you are in the business of selling a self-proclaimed 'non-white' group expertise) most US educated marketing related professionals are uneducated in such matters. Most US business schools still teach marketing based on the pre 70’s simplistic paradigm of an American consumer value system juxtaposed to an international one. “Minority” non-white ethnic groups, and linguistic groups being deemed as “international” or even miss-named as “multicultural” (read: “non-white” foreign).
How many marketers haven’t seen a book or daily newsfeed about a research report that stereotypes consumers by White - Black - Hispanic - Asian (or White versus multicultural or ethnic) and describes each in terms of economic, political, educational and language characteristics of each “label group” as if it were a totally scientific expression of the research ‘law’ of mutually exclusive categories.
What does labeling people for socio-political advocacy purposes have to do with marketing anyway? Bunching together millions of people into a “political identity” as the Hispanic label is meant to do in governmental affairs, may be useful as far as the power of numbers. But for a marketer of the 21st century, where micromarketing is the mantra, with a tendency toward segmentation by lifestyle, shopping patterns, and media behavior?
How useful can it be for a marketer to target a group of highly diverse “Hispanic” people who view different media, have different language preferences, upbringings, cultural backgrounds, socio-economic and educational attainment levels, nationalities, looks, religious beliefs and political views, and lifestyles?
At what point does a Colombia born 30 year old female with college education, who speaks, reads and writes both English and Spanish, took French in high school, is single and lives in West Palm Beach, have anything to do with a 46 year old Guatemala born male with a third grade education, Spanish dependent, with kids, who lives in East LA or with a 23 year old Dominican born and raised in Brooklyn, who speaks English and Spanglish, reads and writes only in English, is a single mother, and is attempting to get her GED. One plus two plus three cannot equal one.
It is discriminatory to assume that the human species can be meaningfully divided into races. If in marketing we divide consumers by “race or ethnicity” and typically ask consumers in survey questions: Which of the following do you consider your race (or ethnicity) to be: White, Black, Hispanic, or Asian … doesn’t that come dangerously close to this definition of racism?
The dark side of color coding has a purpose of dividing people into superior from inferior - majority from minority. That is awfully close to the definition of racism: categorizing people for the purpose of social and economic gain.
Obviously, in this Post Civil Rights Era, a corporation that practices overt racism wouldn’t do well with profits. Could race-based consumer segmentation hurt business in any way?
While Latin American marketing research organizations are getting together to work towards a standardized consumer segmentation system that is based on socio-economic and consumer behavior differences—not race or ethnicity—what does that say about the US color/race based segmentation (read: segregation) system?
If there are more consumer behavior and lifestyle similarities across racial and ethnic barriers, rather than within perceived racial groupings, why the insistence on practicing a color/race based system?
Something is not right and it is limiting our ability to reach excellence in whatever our career path may be-- marketing, advertising, education, health, etc.
Good news everybody!
There is no such thing as Hispanic. That was a category invented
by Richard Nixon. People from Latin America were always referred to as Spanish Americans, just like you have German Americans. In addition, I was watching America's Most Wanted a while back and this lady from Central America was arrested in Washington DC. Guess what the officer checked off in the arrest record? White! Did she look white? Only if Hugo Chavez looks white. Think about it. Millions of us are harassed as non-whites while uncle Sam continues to add us in the white column. I remember this girl who went into the military and she was Hispanic, except that she wasn't dark enough and didn't have any non-European features in her favor. So they gave her a hard time and ended up having to check off the white box, which is what she had apparently 'forgotten' to check off. In the military, not filling out the proper boxes, especially your social security number, can be looked as some form of disobedience or record falsification.
The way I see it, Europe continues to be the white homeland; China is still the major Oriental settlement; and Africa is still predominantly black. Judging from what I've read, it was really unfortunate that Native Americans had been isolated from the rest of the world for so long and had lost all their immunity to simple diseases like measles and such. The key word is isolation, which in terms of species is the situation where you find endangered species. Let's face it, how many other varieties of bald eagles are there? How many Asian tigers? They are not physically isolated from the rest of nature, but within their species---felines, birds, etc.---they are isolated. My point is that Latin America is a re-configured continent and we have to live with that.
Another thing about "Hispanicity" (is that really a word?) is that I was just remembering that when I was a kid I never thought of Spaniards as foreigners. A foreigner was someone who didn't speak Spanish. Spain was just the last stop for Iberia Airlines. This is one of the other differences between Latin America and Anglo America. In Anglo America you have Europeans from every corner of Europe. This is true even in Canada, regardless of how predominant the Anglophone element may be. However, in Latin America, the overwhelming majority of Europeans are Latin (Spanish, French, and Italian). And let's not forget that those three countries are predominantly Catholic, a religion that has always been attacked in North America to this day. Even that's the different. The bad priests that I remember went to brothels and drank a lot. In North America....those boys...well.
People in the USA tend to confuse race with ethnicity. I was born in Argentina. I really feel like laughing when somebody tell me I am not white, because Argentina as well as Uruguay and Canada, have a higher percent of caucasian population that the USA. However, race is only skin deep and beauty as well as honesty comes in all colors.
There are only three races:
1. White or caucasian (originally from Europe & Middle East),
2. Black (originally from Africa).
3. Mongolian (originally from Asia, some of them crossed the Behring Strait to America) Yellow, asian, red, American Indian)
Races are based on physical characteristics. Their study is useful in medicine (people of same race, usually have more compatibility in transplants).
There are thousands of ethnic groups:
Latino, anglo, saxon, germanic, slavs, mestizo, etc. are ethnic groups. Ethnic groups are based on culture. Their study is useful in public relations.
Nationality:
The country where you were born.
Nationality of Origen:
The country where your ancestors were born.
First of all, it is all politics. There seem to be a need in Amreica to label everything and everybody. But if we really think about it, term hispanic could avoid the separation of our people. Some of us call ourselves Mexican-Americans, Central-Americans...and so.
The result is the separation of our own race, which in political ways pushes us back to minorities, decreasing our political voice, causing to the weakening of our society.
If we all call ourselves Hispanics, then we become a majority without barriers. As you might already know in a Democratic Society the majority wins, and the system is not designed to please everyone; simply the majority of the people. So lets stop the non-sense and agreed to unity. If the term Hispanic does it then let it be. Just remeber you can think that you are someone like those who refuse their roots and that is fine, but do not forget that in eyes of everyone else you are who they see (indeed might be very different to what you believe, so step out yourself for a second and look at yourself from the eyes of everyone else then you know who you are)
I am not sure if Hispanic is considered a race or not but it seems that on all legal documents it is. Latino/a is not a race since the term refers to people of countries whose language is Spanish.
As a Brazilian, I feel confused when I feel out forms and see that my options are: White, Black, Asian, Hispanic (pertaining to non-Blacks born in Central & South America). Well, I was born and raised in Brasil (South America) and my heritage is Portuguese, Amazon Indian, Jewish, and Dutch. My skin is light brown, my hair is brown and sort of wavy - my eyes are brown. So, I am not White, I am not Black, I am not Asian and I am not Hispanic (the looks could pass, but my language is Portuguese not Spanish).
Now the most important question: Why is it so important to know these differences? In Brasil, it is considered insulting to ask someone's race so bluntly like that - it is considered racist, discriminatory, and plain rude. I was shocked when I first came to the United States and found it written in every other form one must fill out. Again, why is it so important?
SunnyDaze:
I agree with you. I do not have a drop of spanish blood in my veins, but I speak Spanish. My last names in my father and mother side are Irish, but I do not have an Irish accent. I have blonde hair & blue eyes and every body tells me "you look like an american girl". Of course, I look like an American, because I was born in Argentina, that is part of the American Continent.
Obrigada.
It is simply when you fill out a form the term white is design to be filled by People with Anglo or European decent born in the United States of America.
Everyone else fills the rest which does not completely focuses on the your skin complexion. So you would be Hispanic for paperwork you were born in Argentina. Where you want to fit in could be entirely a different story. You can call yourself white just like some Mexican-Americans or Asian-Americans etc. believe they should called Americans. Again, it is that simple, whether we agreed or not, it is just a difference of opinion.
I have a tangential topic for you all. I am designing a poster for a government agency's EEO (equal employment opportunities) department. It is for Natl Hispanic Heritage Month. I landed on this site because I was searching for a list of all the coutries whose people now living in the U.S. are considered "hispanic".
How do you feel about the term "hispanic heritage"? Not that I have any power to modify it, I was just curious.
Separately, and with all respect as a person not of any spanish-speaking descent (as far as I know), I would agree that "hispanic" is an American term broadly referring to all those in this country whose first language is spanish. It does seem odd to lump all of these cultures together, but that seems to be the easy and comforting thing to do. As a side comparison, the deaf population is categorized as "disabled" by the government. The deaf community considers themselves as having a unique language and culture. However, they are not a race and they do not have a common country or region of origin. Many of them feel this category belittles them yet they do benefit from the "Americans with Disabilities" Act.
I feel that the discussion of how a certain cultural group wants to be defined is an important one because it is a matter of respect.
I do not feel insulted by being called "Hispanic", however, I do not think that either "Hispanic" or "Latin" should be used as a race, because, the word Hispanic means "Spanish". Latin means a person either born in the Latin part of Europe (Spain, Portugal, France, Rumania and Italy)or born in Latin America.
Race deals with physical characteristics, the race concept only gets some value in medicine, because compatibility in transplant, blood transfusions, etc. If somebody needs a transplant the best option is to get a transplant from somebody from your family, second best option is your same racial ancestetry (there are more compatibility).
The word Hispanic denies the existence of every body that do not have Spanish blood, the word Latin American is has more amplitude (mas "amplio") covers every body borned in Latin America.
I read Ximena message regarding how the Argentineans, must feel about being classified as non-white. I am an Argentinean, honestely, we feel very confused when we have to declare "our race". It is not easy to see that other people are taking away your identity both your national identity as well as your ethnic identity by calling you something that you are not. Also, it is not easy to see that other people, are accusing you of lying or "trying to pass for something else" when you are telling the truth.
I agree with you Ximena, classifying Latino or Hispanic as a race is not only a serious mistake, it is also an intellectual fallacy, it is an act of ignorance and it is also racist. A person of African ancestetry is not Spanish. A person of indian ancestetry is not Spanish. In addition, there are also people like myself that do not have either Spanish surname, Indian or African heritage.
Latin America is a Continent populated by people of different races, ethnicities, nationalities, religion, etc.
In my own land, Argentina, more than 90% of the population are of European ancestry (white-Caucasians). Of these 90% of European ancestry, about 30% are carry Italian surname, 25% of Spanish surname and the remaining are "Saxons" and "Slavic" minorities (Germans, Irish, Welsh, Dutch, Scandinavian, polish, Croatians, etc.) the sum of the "Saxon" and "Slavic" "minorities" are higher than the sum of the two majorities of "Latinos" surnames (Spanish & Italians). This may result very confusing to people coming from Central America, the Caribbean and the USA, but it is the true.
Some people in the USA think that Latinos Americans are only of Indian, African or Spanish blood. However, Carlos Menem our ex president is of Arab (Syrian) ancestry, our actual president Nestor Kirchner is of German and Serbian ancestry. No one of them have Indian, black or Spanish blood, but they are both Argentineans and they feel Latin Americans.
There are also people of indigenous ancestry (Mapuches, Guaranies, Aymaras, etc.), but their number is very small. Argentina never had great pre Colombian Empires just as the Aztec, Mayan or Incas. Pre Colombian Argentina was populated by small groups of nomadic tribes, except in the North West. In addition, in my land of Argentina there are also people descended of non European emigrants, such as Coreans, Japanese and Arabs.
The reason why there are so many people of European ancestry living in Argentina, is that Spain did not really care about the territory of what is today Argentina during the Colonial times. Spain was more interested in what is today Cuba, Mexico and Peru. In addition, at that time of history, there were famine in what is today Germany and Ireland, so this hungry people started to move to Argentina knowing that there were pristine lands ready to be cultivated and that Spain was really not controlling the territory.
England invaded Argentina several times during our Colonial Time. Their soldier were not English but Irish, Welsh an Scottish, countries that were, also, invaded by England. Argentineans defeat the English and the Irish, Welsh and Scottish soldiers taken as prisoners decided to remain in Argentina to help the Argentineans to push away the Spaniards, under the condition that they will get a piece of land. Some of them married Argentineans women, some of them brought their family to live in Argentina, most of them never went back to the British Islands.
Once than Argentina got rid of both English and Spanish, business started to flourish until lates 1960's. At the end of the 1800's Argentina became a very rich country, so many more emigrants moved to my land. In 1920, of each 10 person living in Argentina, 8 were foreign born.
However, Argentineans of European ancestry, never developed the complex of "white supremacy" that is so common in English speaking countries. The European emigrant in Argentina, never had problems with "Indians" or people of native origin.
The Spanish did kill many Indians and some English business in accordance with some corrupt military. However, never the common people, never the common people born in Argentina of European ancestry had any kind of bad blood against Indians. As a matter of fact, Indians as well as gaucho, were and are, presently, glorified in Argentina. To us both cultures mean freedom. Our Indians were mostly nomads because they loved freedom, so did the gauchos.
We all Argentineans know that we are living in a Latin American soil that gave our ancestors food to eat when they were starving.
To us, Europe (or the place were our ancestors came from) is like our grand parents, the other Latinos Americans are like our brothers. We can take both in our lives, because both are part of our lives. One means to us our past, the other our future.
Argentina, is not the only country in the Continent that is populated by people that descendend from emigrants. The countries of Uruguay, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Venezuela, and other Sur Americans countries received great number of emigrants. Please, do not denied us, we are part of the Continent, even if our skin is ligher or darker than brown, even is our last name is not of Spanish or Portugues ancestetry.
Love to all. Hilda. Pd: As Ximena, I am proud of be born in Latin America. Please, do not call me "Hispanic", you can call me Latino Americana. Sorry for my English.
Answering the following message:
The folowing quote is from the the last issue. "Latinos have made tremendous economic gains in recent years, their economic status still leaves them well short of whites and far more vulnerable during downturns."
This is a racist remark. Latinos come in all colors and races. We are Caucasian, Central & South American Indian, Black, Asian, etc. How would the Argentineans feel about being classified as non-white or the blacks from Esmeraldas in Ecuador like being classified as Browns, for example? The term Latino refers to a widley diversified group with a common cultural heritage,languages and geographic background.We come in all colors and races and quite often, several mixtures thereof. We should never be classified by color or race. That is racist! Proud to be a Latina!(period)Ximena Espinoza
Get real! I'm so tired of hearing people whine about this word. If you don't like it "ni modo". Don't use it. Why do people try to read so much into it? (I'm sure several postings will follow about the history of the word--don't bother). I consider my self Latina, Hispana, & Mexican-American. Whatever term comes to mind at that moment. Really, it's not that big of a deal.
My mom is from Spain and my dad from Puerto Rico.I don't see the big deal with being categorized as "Hispanic".The problem I DO see is that instead of spanish-speaking people bonding together, some feel as if they are superior to other Spanish-speaking culture.That's insane.Spanish people are no better than Puerto Ricans.Puerto Ricans are no better than Mexicans.Mexicans are no better than Ecuadorians.We ALL have a rich culture that we can be proud of.It's incredibly sad to see such racism within our own broad spanish-speaking races.
I am of Spanish decent and in no way or form relate to being Hispanic just because I speak Spanish. I consider myself European. Being Spanish is very different from being Puerto Rican, Dominican, etc.
Spain has a totally different way of life and culture. To just throw someone in a group and say well you’re Hispanic because you speak Spanish is crazy! It's like saying to Americans; well you’re English because you speak English!!! Yet both cultures are very different.
[quote=mvazquez]I am not of Spanish decent and in no way or form relate to being Hispanic just because I speak Spanish. I consider myself European. Being Spanish is very different from being Puerto Rican, Dominican, etc.
Spain has a totally different way of life and culture. To just throw someone in a group and say well you’re Hispanic because you speak Spanish is crazy! It's like saying to Americans; well you’re English because you speak English!!! Yet both cultures are very different.[/quote]
That is great that you consider yourself European because Spain is located in Europe, I think we all pretty much know that. What upsets me is how you express yourself in a negative way about the Hispanic race. Everyone is different because the word 'Hispanic' entails people from different countries in Latin America. The way you express yourself sounds like you think that Spanish people are better than Latin American ethnicities. Stop being Ethnocentric, there isn't a single ethnicity or nationality that is better than the other. Everyone can give their opinion without being ethnocentric or thinking your superior to others.
The term "Hispanic" is a misnomer and should be abolished altogether as it does nothing but create confusion and stereotypes. I do not see why the group of races that has been historically accepted for centuries cannot continue to be used in this country without alterations. For example, a Mexican or Guatemalan of mostly Aztec or Maya ancestry should be considered American Indian or perhaps Mestizo, but not "Hispanic". An Argentinean or Chilean of Spanish or Italian descent should be considered White just like his European ancestors. Similarly, a black person from say the Dominican Republic should be considered Black, period. I do not see the need for inventing a new "race" that includes people from all races. That makes absolutely no sense.
Why is it that people have to be classified into one racial group at all. If you are both from white and african ancestry then why should only the african ancestry be considered your "race". People from most of the spanish speaking islands are all mixed, but north america and others like yourself insist on putting people into one racial column only. I was glad when the term "hispanic" started to be added on US forms. I always classified myself as an "other". I am from both white spanish/european and black african ancestors. I look mixed and that is what I am, a mixture of both races. Not white or black, but a person from a spanish speaking country whose ancestors were from both sides of the atlantic.
Look if you want to get technical even 40 percent of Southern Europeans from Italy to Spain have african, gypsie, iberian, morrocan, greek and muslim influence. So white isn't really even white. Southern Spain has tons of african and muslim and moorish influence. So even if your just spanish your mixed. But anyhow why does it matter what percentage of what makes a hispanic? Your genetic heritage doesn't make who you are. I mean all through history every culture or race has mixed with another. There is no pure blood line. Be proud of your race if you want but don't get so critical about it like it is important. It doesn't fucking matter you all are Americans. Why argue with eachother and fight eachother over something so stupid. Do you think bieng a certain ethcnicity makes you better than someone else? That attitude is what allowed slavery to go on for so long, the belief that your race or ethnicity gives you something over someone else. Don't have pride in your race. Have pride in your culture, your family, your history but not your freakin genetic features. We all do the same things in every culture there is love, death, war, fighting, poverty, rich, struggle, whatever. Our race doesn't make a difference. I am sick and tired of seeing sites with different ethnicities attacking eachother when the reason why they are fighting is because they are the exact same. You all need a look in the mirror and see your streangths and faults in yourself and not your race.
I am grateful to be a part of a great heritage and to be able to identify with a group. There are so many melted people that they do not know what they are and have no heritage to claim or feel apart of. Like my husband for instance; he is Caucasian and he cant really identify with any one race or culture except American. I am so proud and happy to be able to offer my kids something they can identify with. They know they are exactly 50% Mexican-American. They know that on their mother's side they have all Mexican-American relatives and we have a past, a culture, a special way about us. They know there is a specific language that their family speaks and I can share with them specifics about their ancestors' country and lives, etc. They know of the food, language, customs, and culture and that it is all a part of them. I am happy to mark the box called Hispanic with a check because I feel special in this melting pot of a country. There are too many people who cant and dont feel this way.
Linda
I wish to make a correction... By a slip of mind I wrote that people born in Puerto Rico are first generation American... and although that is how I feel often times... the US Census defines all Puerto Ricans, no matter where they or their parents, or grandparents were born, in a Puerto Rican island in the Caribbean, or in the US mainland-- Puerto Ricans are third generation US born. Therefore, Puerto Ricans, by political definition, are never included in immigration related numbers nor considered in the foreign born census numbers. When they talk about foreign born Hispanics...Puerto Ricans are always excluded...
I am a 3rd generation American from a long Spanish line. I am very proud of my heritage and I am proud to be an American. I found that when I put "hispanic" on government job application I got the job because I am a hispanic female. I have also found that being from Spanish decent people look at me funny because I am lighter skinned. The first thing people say to me when they see "hispanic" is "Well, you don't look like a Mexican." I didn't think I was supposed to. It seems mainstream Americans think everyone who’s hispanic is Mexican. I have also found that if you indicate that you are hispanic some people assume that you are illiterate or incapable of anything except menial labor jobs. . That’s what is insulting to me.
People who feel all Mexican's are illiterate and incapable of anything except menial labor are ignorant.
I am a 2nd Generation American with a lineage that starts in Spain and goes through Mexico and stops in America.
I am not ashamed of being called Mexican, Spanish, Hispanic, or American.
If checking the Hispanic box on an applications gives one of us an opportunity we would not normally get, more power to us. Our responsibility is to the rest of us "Hispanics" to set a good precedent or reputation as honest, hard working, and educated workers.
I believe was the idea behind the Affirmative Action program. Any race, culture, or individual can improve their status with an opportunity. What we do with that opportunity reflects us all.
Not all cubans are black, anyone who tries to say this should not be taken seriously. white cubans are meds, like andy garcia.
I'm constantly reading about claims that latin americans have significant amounts of
african ancestry.
If anyone wants to make such claims, I only ask that the person give proof on how this history (of slaves) affected present day latin americans make up. I prefer if they use an unbiased source without any agendas.
Like this one which claims puerto ricans are predominately mestizo: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop...
This site also has similiar information: http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2003/vol7n50/PRGenePool.shtml
Another site (Which i can't find now) says almost the exact same thing but only says mtdna (mother's side) which was something like 61% 27% 12%...
I ask others who are also skeptical to also ask when running into this type of discussion. nothing I have read from them holds empirical evidence. If there is Any I would like to hear it.
The people who are saying there is a hispanic race have an obvious
agenda. For some reason,saying there is no hispanic race goes against their claim of african ancestry in all hispanics.
When Hispanic shows up as an option for race, they are mixing apples and oranges...I usually don't mark off anything because either choice would be incorrect (white non-hispanic or hispanic). We should be able to identify our race with no problem...It's pretty simple once you think about it.
I am sorry if you assumed that I was calling you a racist, I wasnt, never would, never will.
My comment was, my mother said that people, people in general, that look at their color, skin, hair, ect ,ect and label themselves or other people are racist. Not You LizaJennifer or your friends.
Looking for the worst in people is always the way it goes because it's just the nature of human civilization. Thats why our America the Beautiful, Land of the Free is so full of hatrid! Try looking for the best in people and accept human beings as they are! I do, and it makes my life alot fuller and easier to live!
HEY...are you attacking me or have you got me mixed up with LizaJennifer. I accept my heritage whether I am black white purple green, hispanic, african american, what ever it may be. But you cant and no one can condem me for the way I was raised, being racist wasnt part of my up bringing. I have good friends that are puerto rican and great friends that are black, I love to learn about their heritage and family ways. I am probably one of the most liberal, open minded people you will ever chat with. From the get go of this topic I have repeatedly said "accept who you are and be proud"
On a lighter note, I helped my sister fill out a complaint form from EEOC, and to my surprise under race there was a box for MEXICAN.
The term Hispanic simply means to practice the language and culture of Spain.It does not describe race. Hispanidad began as a White culture that was brought to America and eventually imposed on the Native American population, as well as the Black slaves. To better explain this, one must consider that All Spaniards are Hispanic, but not all Hispanics are Spaniards. Hispanics can be of any race, and or ethnic heritage. In Puerto Rico you find people who are White of Spanish, French, Irish, Corsican and other European heritage. You also find a good many people of African, and or Native American heritage.
Hi,
When the 2000 census form was sent to me, I had no problem filling in the box for Hispanic. As far as I am concerned, it's a term used by non-Hispanic. I am first generation Dominican and I don't recall waking up in the morning and saying to myself, "Hey! I am Hispanic." The furthest concession I make for the word, although I don't think it's derogatory, is when it is used in a political context to paraphrase the name of a group of people from Spanish-speaking countries.
After filling in the "first" appropriate box, I didn't expect a second box. To make a long story short, I didn't fill in a second box. My skin is dark and this is America where:
"If you're white, you're alright
If you're brown (Hispanic, Hindu,and even Orientals), stick around
But if you're black....Get back
This is a quote from an acutal American folk song by Huddy Ledbetter, aka 'Leadbelly." He was singing about Washington, DC before desegregation!
In the year 2000, 7 million people filled in several boxes for racial categories. Race is not a biological fact; you don't die if you are "missing" a race, but life can get quite tricky when your other kidney is out of commission. Recent DNA studies have found that all dogs are descended from two or three breeds, even though our human eyes see SO MUCH VARIETY. If we stick to DNA, it is obvious that NO ONE should fill in so many boxes. How is it possible for the offspring of such a person to resemble members of any particular group, given the high variety of DNA combinations? However, we live in a continent that mixes up biology and national/ethnic pride at the drop of a hat.
Having a separate category for Hispanics didn't bother me until the Census bureau wrote me back and gave me a phone number to call. As I imagined myself telling this guy how every other group in the form is "just not my problem," and that for all my biological ancestors I just have a big "thank you, and good luck," I decided not to call him back. I have been categorized into all sorts of races, except for oriental, asummptions based simply on my "dusky" complexion. I was watching America's Most Wanted the other days and there was a story about a Central American girl who comitted a crime in Florida. During the report, a picture of her police record was put up on the screen. Playing by the ususal street science of race, "Yo, he be looking white, Yo!" or, "Ewe look lakk one of dem dare Meks skins (Mexicans)," she "looked" Hispanic. But, then again, I AM HISPANIC. When I play "Guess who's Hispanic?" I usually score. The point is that her police record contained the letter W, for white, in the box for race. In other words, no police department on this planet is going place people in categories where they will find themselves looking in the wrong places; and all because someone felt you didn't fit a certain category according to his interpretation. Just imagine if they would have written in "Oriental". Chop, chop.
Do I feel that Hispanic fits me? As long as I am living outside of Latin America? Yes. The -ic ending indicates similarity but not exact resemblance to something. Saliva contains hydrochloric acid, but I have yet to see it eat through the surface of plants. We are not a race, and we are under no obligation, nor any duty to look exactly like Spaniards. Being a descendant doesn't mean you have to look exactly like your ancestor. Try that physical resemblance test when there's an inheritance involved. Moreover, there's always the finality of DNA. Those guys from the Gypsy Kings? They're French. Yes, their ancestors migrated to Provence from Spain, but they are French nationals.
To conclude, what is the purpose of including Hispanic in the Census Form? The same purpose it has in counting Eskimoes and Aleutians--groups that can be placed within what we usually refer to as Asiatic based on physical features--as a separate category. The same purpose it has in counting Southeast Asians (really Indians and Pakistanis) as a separate group, even though they look like white people with black skin or, better yet, like very "swarthy" Hispanics. The purpose is to placate the usual xenophobia that has plagued the nation-state since its creation in the 18th century. In order to keep the "others" out, you have to count them. Since I refused to fill in a second box, I guess I wasn't counted. But I did vote!!!
Ill leave you with this quote from Barbara Fields,a historian.
"Anyone who continues to believe in race as a physical attribute of individuals, despite the now commonplace disclaimers of biologists and geneticists, might as well also believe that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy are real, and that the earth stands still while the sun moves."
We have different states of minds,i will tell you this,if black has a race existed it would be accepted globaly.Now there are certain countries that dont have "black" has a box to check on their census.Making distinctions between humans because of superficial looks is no better then making distinctions between us humans 'cause of our language.We're all humans at the end of the day,from the human race then come our "social groups" race should'nt exist at all,too much people now in days are taking the word "race" out of context.Once again terms like Black, White, Asian, and Latino are social groups, not genetically distinct branches of humankind.If people like yourself say Latino/Hispanic should'nt be a race,then all i got to say is that "Black" should'nt be a race neither.
What are you saying, I am a black hispanic? HMMMM I think I would have disagree. How can you determine what we are if you dont know where we came from or anything about our heritage?
My great Grandfather was Lebanese/Mexican, my great grandmother was Spanish/Mexican! ATHIE was their name. So where does the Black come from?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having black in my heritage, but I think that unless you have some kind of connection with my family tree then maybe you shouldnt guess. Did your guess come from the color of my grandfathers hair?
I didn't say you were anything. I simply responded to your statement, don't you remember what you wrote:
"A Puerto rican is somewhat different from a Mexican American because they, Puerto Ricans, have african blood in them, as do Cubans. Mexicans do not so how can both be considered the same race."
I don't know what is in your family line of heritage, I simply responded to your statement that Mexicans do not have african blood in them. You should research your own family line and the history of the country you were born in and that of your parents before you make a statement. In fact, Lebanese people also has black african heritage and white french also. I didn't guess anything. I provided an educational link for you so that you can research the african heritage in Mexico. Once Again, a Race and heritage is two different things. Proudhispanic stated that anyone that classifies someones race is racist. That's ridiculous. Anyone that gets offended and doesn't acknowledge their race is racist against their own family. Culture and heritage is something to be proud of, whichever you choose to practice, whether it's your African Heritage or your Hispanic Heritage. I am very good friends with Puerto Ricans who refuse to acknowledge the spaniard/hispanic Heritage AND ONLY acknowledge their Taino Indian heritage and are deeply involved and hold Pow Wows throughout the United States. There are many people who are a combination of a very beautiful mixture of the four races: Whatever heritage lies in your ancestors, my ancestors and that of proudhispanic SHOULD not be denied, ever, it is their in our family line. My african heritage exists. Perhaps you don't have any african heritage in your family line - I don't know - maybe you do. Black africans were brought as slaves throughout the world including Mexico, Lebanon, United States, everywhere. Kinky hair combined with dark skin is from black africans. White, Black, Indian and Asian, it's to be acknowledge and something to be proud of - not denied. It's a fact their are different races and many different ethnicities throughout the world.
Hispanic should not be considered a race. The word "Hispanic" was formally brought into American vanacular when the Reagan administration, Ronald Reagan, used it to classify as anyone of spanish speaking decent. It was a way to classify a segment of our population because there were so many different names, i.e., Columbian, Puerto Rico, etc. A Puerto rican is somewhat different from a Mexican American because they, Puerto Ricans, have african blood in them, as do Cubans. Mexicans do not so how can both be considered the same race.
To say that we are the same race is to trivialize our beautiful culture.
The assumption that all Puerto Ricans are of direct African decent is quite false. Yes the Spaniards brought slaves,and yes their are people with African lineage. That happened all over the Americas. What about all the slaves brought to north America, does that make all north Americans African? If do a little research before you post comments, you might sound like you know what you are talking about. Check out-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Puerto_Rico
DNA research from the University Of Puerto Rico finds that the majority of "interracial" breeding was between the Spanish colonizers and the indigenous people of the island. Besides, if you really want to get down to it we all originated from the continent of African anyway; Spanish, Norwegian, Afghanistan, what ever. What you are is the present culture in witch you live with in, not where your ancestor from 500 years ago migrated from.
There are Black (and mixed) Mexicans who are proud and only accept their Black - African Heritage and celebrate Kwanza while their are other Black (and mixed) Mexicans (ProudHispanic) whom only accept their Hispanic Heritage but deny that they are in fact black women. Bottom line - The Race is not Hispanic. There's a difference. If you do your research into different countries, whether in the MiddleEast, Europe, Latin America - anywhere you will find that there are only FOUR RACES and people whom are mixed of those races.
I agree with your passionate word that saying all hispanics are the same race is to trivialize our beautiful AND different cultures - there are many traditions passed on from different countries meanwhile the one similarity is that we speak spanish. It's not a race.
San Lorenzo de los Negros (later named San Lorenzo Cerralvo and now called Yanga) is one example of an Afromestizo community that is still in existence today. - See the picture of Gaspar Yanga in Mexico.
The largest number of Africans arrived in the Mexican territory during the three hundred years of the colonial period, 1521-1821. It is estimated that approximately 200,000 Africans were brought into present-day Mexico during this period. Africans came as slaves, forced to leave their homes and work for the Spanish colonists on their sugar estates, in silver mines, and as domestic servants.
Two of the largest Afromestizo communities (that is, people of joint African and European heritage) in Mexico are located along the central coasts of the country in central Veracruz and in the states of Guerrero and Oaxaca in
the region called Costa Chica.
To say that we are the same race is to trivialize our beautiful culture. Well said and I agree with essence of your message - that Hispanics should be considered a race because it's a classification towards any one that speaks spanish. Please Remember that each family line is different and some Mexicans do have African blood, there is a member in this site that said she does, while others don't. In Puerto Rico, there are families that remained white and stayed with their race only from their ancestors of White Spaniards that settled there. My family is a mixture and I do have African blood in me.
it seems you have came in to the forum like a bull in a china shop and have broken a few heirlooms.
Maybe you didnt mean to insult anyone, but I think you have, I know I took your tone as an insult. Maybe some of us arent as educated on the Hispanic "race". If you agree with "edjuardoc" about sterotyping or racism, then why make such a big deal out of putting our heritage into YET ANOTHER CATEGORY, isnt our point here about "how we feel about using hispanic a race" in my opinion you have added insult to injury. My point is maybe it doesnt matter to any of us if we are black, white, indian or asian hispanics/mexicans, maybe it's just being hispanic that matters.
I visited my mother and aunt yesterday, and spoke of how you have broken our heritage down to another category. My aunt says you dont know what you our talking about. I have a tendency to believe she knows what she is talking about when it comes to our heritage, afterall she is the one who has been living with it for the last 69 years. God Bless
My Puerto Rican friends don't practic any Hispanic Culture or Hispanic Heritage, they only practice their Taino Indian culture and heritage and they hold Pow Wows throughout the United States. It's a very beautiful culture also. Let me make this clear to you, they don't DENY their African Heritage, they don't Deny their Hispanic Heritage and Culture - THEREFORE they are not in DENIAL of their RACE or IN DENIAL of their ANCESTORS - and they are NOT RACIST and neither am I. Different races in human beings exists and thousands of different cultures and religions and thousands of customs and not to mention - family heritage and traditions.
It is When you DENY your African Heritage as if it doesn't run through your blood or DENY any part of your ancestors. They lived and died as slaves. They were proud Africans and you should at the very least ACKNOWLEDGE that it runs through your blood, your hair, it's real.
If you choose to practice your Hispanic Heritage, that's how you were raised - but to just deny that any other heritage ever existed - Comb your hair, look at your photographs, ANCESTORS, look at your African family members and acknowledge it. Don't be racist against your own family line and deny it all together simply because your family past down traditions of only practicing Hispanic Culture and Heritage. Maybe it can be you to educate your own family and say a blessing for those that died for you to be here this very day. HOW DARE YOU CALL ME RACIST WHEN YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO BE INTELLECTUAL ABOUT THIS BUT JUST BLINDLY, IGNORANTLY, PARROTING WHAT HAS BEEN FED TO YOU ALL OF YOUR LIFE. Speak to Scholars, Research your history, FIND YOURSELF AND BE PROUD OF ALLLLLLLLLL OF YOUR HERITAGE.
LisaJennifer says
"If you choose to practice your Hispanic Heritage, that's how you were raised - but to just deny that any other heritage ever existed - Comb your hair, look at your photographs, ANCESTORS, look at your African family members and acknowledge it."
Whoa, hold on just one minute. Who are you to tell Puerto Ricans to acknowledge African ancestry? Do you purport to know every Puerto Rican's ancestry? You seem Hell bent on an Afro-Rican view of things, while ignoring the very big White-European population of Puerto Rico. In the last census, 80% of Puerto Ricans listed their race as White. Is this 80% number correct? Although I am not so sure,those numbers seem to imply that there is none the less, a significant White population in Puerto Rico.
I am proud of my heritage, my culture and my families accomplishments. There is a difference between the two: Please read the following with an open mind and intellect.
I answered the question: How do you feel when you see "Hispanic" as an option for race?
There is a different between the two.
HERITAGE: something passing from generation to generation: something such as a way of life or traditional culture that passes from one generation to the next in a social group.
RACE: Term historically used to describe a human population distinguishable from others based on shared biological traits. This high degree of genetic diversity exists within populations because individuals from different populations have always intermingled and mated with each other.
The term race is often misunderstood and misused. It is based on Genetic Makeup not culture or heritage.
It is often confused with ethnicity, an ambiguous term that refers mostly, though not exclusively, to cultural (non-biological) differences between groups.
People may also mistakenly use the term race to refer to a religion, culture, or nationality—as in the “Jewish race” or the “Italian race”— "Hispanic race" - whose members may or may not share a common biological/race ancestry.
In everyday language, the distinction between race and ethnicity has become blurred, and many people use the terms to mean the same thing.
Actually that's not true, that is also a stereotype.
There are latinos and latinas that have a very strong family line of being only one race. While their culture remains strong and wonderful, their family line happens to choose to remain one race. This is quite common among white Spaniards, Cubans and many black families and indians etc. There should be no stereotypes of any kind. I know myself and my family and I am proud.
I never said "races" dont exist,in fact they do.They do exist but it was created by society.The so called races have no biological significance,the genetical differences between the so called races are about 3-4%.Which is a minimal number.Once again,no races exist except the human race(biologically speaking).All these talks about hispanic/latino not being a race is a hypocritical statement.What you got to understand is that black,asian,white and the so called races we're created by society itself!!!! just like the term hispanic/latino,they only difference i see is that we're considered a race simply by our language and where we come from.Now asians,white,blacks are considered has races 'cause some of them share similar superficial traits.
P.S The very few scientist that do believe in race has a biological significance usually turn out to be racist.Some of them actually believe that negroids are not intelligent has their caucasian counterparts,which to me is just plain out racism and stupidity.
BIOLOGICALLY SPEAKING BIRDS ARE BIRDS AND CATS ARE CATS AND DOGS ARE DOGS BUT IT IS TRUE BIOLOGICALLY SPEAKING THAT THERE ARE DIFFERNT TYPES AND DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS........................
JUST AS HUMAN BEINGS HAVE DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS AND DIFFERENT FEATURES AND HAIR TEXTURES THIS IS DUE TO INTERBREEDING WHICH IS QUITE LOVELY TAKE A LOOK AT HALLE BERRY, JENNIFER LOPEZ, VANESSA WILLIAMS AND PENELOPE CRUZ. THE BEAUTY OF INHERITED MIXED RACES IS WONDERFUL YES WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS WITH MIXED RACES. IT IS THE IGNORANCE OF A BLACK WOMEN SAYING THAT SHE'S NOT BLACK SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE IS HISPANIC. OR A MEXICAN SAYING HE'S NOT WHITE SIMPLY BECAUSE HE'S MEXICAN ETC.
I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THERE IS A RACISM AND STEREOTYPES BECAUSE OF SKIN COLOR - YES THIS EXISTS IN SOCIETY AND THE VERY PEOPLE THAT ARE RACISM DENY THAT THEIR ANCESTORS ARE BLACK AND INDIAN. IN FACT, LAST WEEK A YOUNG WOMEN FROM ISRAEL WITH LIGHT EYES TAN SKIN AND THICK CURLY HAIR AND A YOUNG MAN FROM LEBANON WITH LIGHT BROWN EYES VERY THICK BLACK AND TANNER SKIN THEN MINE DENIED THAT HE HAD BLACK HERITAGE - IN FACT ANGRILY DENIED HIS INDIAN AND BLACK HERITAGE SAYING THAT HE IS WHITE. I AM SPEAKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE ONCE PEOPLE ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE INDEED MIXED WITH OTHER RACES WHEN THEY LOOK IN THE MIRROR WHEN THEY RESEARCH THEIR ANCESTORS THEIR COUNTRIES MAYBE THEN THIS RACISM WILL STOP. SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE WHITE HAVE THICKER KNAPPIER HAIR THEN I DO BUT WILL BE RACISTS TOWARDS SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK. IT'S RIDICULOUS AND WRONG. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO TAKE OFFENSE BY CLASSIFICATIONS - YES WE ARE HUMANS BUT WE HAVE DIFFERENCES AND SIMILARITIES. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE HAVE HOPE.
I look in the mirror everyday! I got into this discussion to speak out not be chastized or ridiculed by you. I dont care whether my grandfather was, a black, white, indian, or asian mexican, it all boils down to he was, he is deceased now a proud mexican man.
But if it will make you happy to put him into yet another category then so be it, he was dark skinned, black coarse hair, tiny little man with a deep acccent. Hey I can go a step further, my cousin also mexican is blond with green eyes, both her parents my aunt and uncle, and my grandfathers sister, where both dark haired, dark skinned mexicans, so Lizajennifer, what category is she in, hmmmm let me guess WHITE. Where did she get her mixture from, I wonder if she looks in the mirror!
I never meant to ridicule anyone, I would never do that. But if your grandfather was black and family members are black be proud of that. If you are black, be proud of that. You and your family members should be proud of being black hispanics or white hispanics or mixed. Acknowledge that you are black and be proud. It's black history month for ALL black People from ALL nationalities and ALL backgrounds. This is a celebration for my history also.
I never meant to ridicule anyone, I would never do that. But if your grandfather was black and family members are black be proud of that. If you are black, be proud of that. You and your family members should be proud of being black hispanics or white hispanics or mixed. Acknowledge that you are black and be proud. It's black history month for ALL black People from ALL nationalities and ALL backgrounds. This is a celebration for my history also.
Hispanic is not a race
I really get annoyed that people who know nothing about my culture try to impose their own preconceived notions about my racial ancestry. But the worst part about the "hispanic" tag is where it relates to medicine. There are all sorts of statistics about what diseases hispanics are predisposed to, but I know of several diagnoses that just don't fit the mold. This is a dangerous label.
Divining people by colors-- no longer works
What you are is the present culture YOU live--, even if it is a “hybrid”, not the one your ancestors had 500 years ago. Your culture is the way YOU think, you behave, you LIVE (sometimes…even regardless of the cultures that surround you).
I am Puerto Rican, and by looking at me, or listening to me, or looking at my last name, like many other Hispanics, you could not tell what country could I possibly come from. Like many Latinos, I have a variety of countries of ancestry...my ancestors are Basque, Spaniards, Dutch, French, Italian, Egyptian, and I am sure there's got to be Taíno somewhere.... I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and by US Census definition I am first generation US born...
My culture and ways of thinking and being...though, are usually very different from first generation Americans. And somewhat similar to other people who are in "hybrid" culture situations, multilingual, and educated-- beyond institutionalized education.
I am a marketing research professional, so I am going to write about what goes on behind classyfying people by race-- for money making purposes.
WE ARE EXPERIENCING a demographic reinvention and movement towards a global community. Generations of transnational mobility, intermarriage and cultural give and takes have yielded new arrangements of people, identities, and social practices that are challenging the definitions of self and the usefulness of racial categories for marketing purposes.
Not that America — the nation of immigrants — wasn’t diverse before, but before the Civil Rights movement, diversity was not a good thing. Assimilation (melting into the common pot) was the ultimate objective.
Prior to the mid 70’s, when cultural anthropologist Margaret Mead announced that “Being American is a matter of abstention from foreign ways, foreign food, foreign ideas, foreign accents”, people suffered for being different. Parents struggled to ensure their children assimilated to the mass, spoke English, and rid themselves of “foreign signs”, such as speaking a language other than English, having a foreign accent, dressing foreign clothes.
Many immigrants escaped a strict European caste system, political and religious persecution to a land of equal opportunity. An idea so contradictory to the notion of slavery could only be justified if enslaved humans in America were perceived to be of an inferior subhuman type.
And so was born the color-coding system that rationalized that this Land of Equal Opportunity — and freedom — was so, for those in the superior color category. Jews, Italians, Irish, all went through the color struggle that Blacks, Latin Americans, Asians, Indigenous people still face.
Whiteness has always been a perceived category for many — and a physical one when it comes to excluding people of darker skin, regardless of origin.
Today, now that being unique is good there is no need to assimilate to anything. And some are even looking back and digging into their ancestral trunks and reviving customs and identifications from their origins. In the meantime, while we are working to recognize that diversity is good — and that colors look better together than by themselves— some structures have not changed to match this trend.
I want to bring to your attention one of those: the segmentation system we habitually use- just like driving back home from work or putting deodorant every morning. It simply divides humans/consumers into color, a.k.a. racial, categories: White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian.
For instance, in the United States, marketers, researchers, advertising agencies and media often treat "Hispanics" as a separate group from Whites, Blacks and Asians, when "Hispanics" actually include people who identify also with one or more of the aforementioned racial groups, or with neither- as is the case of those who identify with indigenous tribes, or a mix of 'races'.
Additionally, the term “Hispanic” often wrongly classifies people of 23 different nationalities spread out from Europe, to the Caribbean, from North America to the South Pole, into a common pool, assuming they all share a language, cultural traits, consumer behavior, or degree of foreign identity (if any).
People who technically would be considered White per US Census definition are easily dropped by marketers to the category of “people of color, multicultural, non-mainstream” if they speak with an accent, speak fluently a language other than (even including) English, and/or come from certain European, North African, or East Asian countries such as Spaniards, Basques, Portuguese, Lebanese, or Arabs.
Language is not a racial category, but if a person “speaks, understands or “should” speak Spanish”, regardless of their race, he/she gets placed into the Hispanic or Latino category. Language is still being treated as if it were a race.
The U.S. government — the entity behind the 1980 invention of the term Hispanic, claims the purpose of dividing people into color segments (a.k.a. racial/ethnic segments) as necessary (evil?) to “identify and help minority groups”.
Labels, however, tend to bring a set of distinguishing characteristics, so once a person is labeled (White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American) he/she is expected to be a certain way and behave accordingly to what is known of one of their kind.
And that brings problems.
The problem with selling a generic "Hispanic" identity is that it often results in over-generalizing a population that is hardly alike, running the risk of getting a client (or vendor) that is uneducated in such matters-- in trouble (read loss of revenue or cost of staying in business).
Unfortunately (or fortunately if you are in the business of selling a self-proclaimed 'non-white' group expertise) most US educated marketing related professionals are uneducated in such matters. Most US business schools still teach marketing based on the pre 70’s simplistic paradigm of an American consumer value system juxtaposed to an international one. “Minority” non-white ethnic groups, and linguistic groups being deemed as “international” or even miss-named as “multicultural” (read: “non-white” foreign).
How many marketers haven’t seen a book or daily newsfeed about a research report that stereotypes consumers by White - Black - Hispanic - Asian (or White versus multicultural or ethnic) and describes each in terms of economic, political, educational and language characteristics of each “label group” as if it were a totally scientific expression of the research ‘law’ of mutually exclusive categories.
What does labeling people for socio-political advocacy purposes have to do with marketing anyway? Bunching together millions of people into a “political identity” as the Hispanic label is meant to do in governmental affairs, may be useful as far as the power of numbers. But for a marketer of the 21st century, where micromarketing is the mantra, with a tendency toward segmentation by lifestyle, shopping patterns, and media behavior?
How useful can it be for a marketer to target a group of highly diverse “Hispanic” people who view different media, have different language preferences, upbringings, cultural backgrounds, socio-economic and educational attainment levels, nationalities, looks, religious beliefs and political views, and lifestyles?
At what point does a Colombia born 30 year old female with college education, who speaks, reads and writes both English and Spanish, took French in high school, is single and lives in West Palm Beach, have anything to do with a 46 year old Guatemala born male with a third grade education, Spanish dependent, with kids, who lives in East LA or with a 23 year old Dominican born and raised in Brooklyn, who speaks English and Spanglish, reads and writes only in English, is a single mother, and is attempting to get her GED. One plus two plus three cannot equal one.
It is discriminatory to assume that the human species can be meaningfully divided into races. If in marketing we divide consumers by “race or ethnicity” and typically ask consumers in survey questions: Which of the following do you consider your race (or ethnicity) to be: White, Black, Hispanic, or Asian … doesn’t that come dangerously close to this definition of racism?
The dark side of color coding has a purpose of dividing people into superior from inferior - majority from minority. That is awfully close to the definition of racism: categorizing people for the purpose of social and economic gain.
Obviously, in this Post Civil Rights Era, a corporation that practices overt racism wouldn’t do well with profits. Could race-based consumer segmentation hurt business in any way?
While Latin American marketing research organizations are getting together to work towards a standardized consumer segmentation system that is based on socio-economic and consumer behavior differences—not race or ethnicity—what does that say about the US color/race based segmentation (read: segregation) system?
If there are more consumer behavior and lifestyle similarities across racial and ethnic barriers, rather than within perceived racial groupings, why the insistence on practicing a color/race based system?
Something is not right and it is limiting our ability to reach excellence in whatever our career path may be-- marketing, advertising, education, health, etc.
THE HISPANIC.......QUESTION
Good news everybody!
There is no such thing as Hispanic. That was a category invented
by Richard Nixon. People from Latin America were always referred to as Spanish Americans, just like you have German Americans. In addition, I was watching America's Most Wanted a while back and this lady from Central America was arrested in Washington DC. Guess what the officer checked off in the arrest record? White! Did she look white? Only if Hugo Chavez looks white. Think about it. Millions of us are harassed as non-whites while uncle Sam continues to add us in the white column. I remember this girl who went into the military and she was Hispanic, except that she wasn't dark enough and didn't have any non-European features in her favor. So they gave her a hard time and ended up having to check off the white box, which is what she had apparently 'forgotten' to check off. In the military, not filling out the proper boxes, especially your social security number, can be looked as some form of disobedience or record falsification.
The way I see it, Europe continues to be the white homeland; China is still the major Oriental settlement; and Africa is still predominantly black. Judging from what I've read, it was really unfortunate that Native Americans had been isolated from the rest of the world for so long and had lost all their immunity to simple diseases like measles and such. The key word is isolation, which in terms of species is the situation where you find endangered species. Let's face it, how many other varieties of bald eagles are there? How many Asian tigers? They are not physically isolated from the rest of nature, but within their species---felines, birds, etc.---they are isolated. My point is that Latin America is a re-configured continent and we have to live with that.
Another thing about "Hispanicity" (is that really a word?) is that I was just remembering that when I was a kid I never thought of Spaniards as foreigners. A foreigner was someone who didn't speak Spanish. Spain was just the last stop for Iberia Airlines. This is one of the other differences between Latin America and Anglo America. In Anglo America you have Europeans from every corner of Europe. This is true even in Canada, regardless of how predominant the Anglophone element may be. However, in Latin America, the overwhelming majority of Europeans are Latin (Spanish, French, and Italian). And let's not forget that those three countries are predominantly Catholic, a religion that has always been attacked in North America to this day. Even that's the different. The bad priests that I remember went to brothels and drank a lot. In North America....those boys...well.
RACE, ETHNICITY, NATIONALITY,
People in the USA tend to confuse race with ethnicity. I was born in Argentina. I really feel like laughing when somebody tell me I am not white, because Argentina as well as Uruguay and Canada, have a higher percent of caucasian population that the USA. However, race is only skin deep and beauty as well as honesty comes in all colors.
There are only three races:
1. White or caucasian (originally from Europe & Middle East),
2. Black (originally from Africa).
3. Mongolian (originally from Asia, some of them crossed the Behring Strait to America) Yellow, asian, red, American Indian)
Races are based on physical characteristics. Their study is useful in medicine (people of same race, usually have more compatibility in transplants).
There are thousands of ethnic groups:
Latino, anglo, saxon, germanic, slavs, mestizo, etc. are ethnic groups. Ethnic groups are based on culture. Their study is useful in public relations.
Nationality:
The country where you were born.
Nationality of Origen:
The country where your ancestors were born.
Hispanic is a term of unity
First of all, it is all politics. There seem to be a need in Amreica to label everything and everybody. But if we really think about it, term hispanic could avoid the separation of our people. Some of us call ourselves Mexican-Americans, Central-Americans...and so.
The result is the separation of our own race, which in political ways pushes us back to minorities, decreasing our political voice, causing to the weakening of our society.
If we all call ourselves Hispanics, then we become a majority without barriers. As you might already know in a Democratic Society the majority wins, and the system is not designed to please everyone; simply the majority of the people. So lets stop the non-sense and agreed to unity. If the term Hispanic does it then let it be. Just remeber you can think that you are someone like those who refuse their roots and that is fine, but do not forget that in eyes of everyone else you are who they see (indeed might be very different to what you believe, so step out yourself for a second and look at yourself from the eyes of everyone else then you know who you are)
I am not sure if Hispanic is considered a race or not but it seems that on all legal documents it is. Latino/a is not a race since the term refers to people of countries whose language is Spanish.
Martin (m_popoca@hotmail.com)
Where do I fit in??? How do I feel out these forms???
As a Brazilian, I feel confused when I feel out forms and see that my options are: White, Black, Asian, Hispanic (pertaining to non-Blacks born in Central & South America). Well, I was born and raised in Brasil (South America) and my heritage is Portuguese, Amazon Indian, Jewish, and Dutch. My skin is light brown, my hair is brown and sort of wavy - my eyes are brown. So, I am not White, I am not Black, I am not Asian and I am not Hispanic (the looks could pass, but my language is Portuguese not Spanish).
Now the most important question: Why is it so important to know these differences? In Brasil, it is considered insulting to ask someone's race so bluntly like that - it is considered racist, discriminatory, and plain rude. I was shocked when I first came to the United States and found it written in every other form one must fill out. Again, why is it so important?
Thank you. Gracias. Obrigada.
Where do I fit in??? How do I feel out these forms???
SunnyDaze:
I agree with you. I do not have a drop of spanish blood in my veins, but I speak Spanish. My last names in my father and mother side are Irish, but I do not have an Irish accent. I have blonde hair & blue eyes and every body tells me "you look like an american girl". Of course, I look like an American, because I was born in Argentina, that is part of the American Continent.
Obrigada.
Where do you fit in is easy to say
It is simply when you fill out a form the term white is design to be filled by People with Anglo or European decent born in the United States of America.
Everyone else fills the rest which does not completely focuses on the your skin complexion. So you would be Hispanic for paperwork you were born in Argentina. Where you want to fit in could be entirely a different story. You can call yourself white just like some Mexican-Americans or Asian-Americans etc. believe they should called Americans. Again, it is that simple, whether we agreed or not, it is just a difference of opinion.
National Hispanic Heritage Month
I have a tangential topic for you all. I am designing a poster for a government agency's EEO (equal employment opportunities) department. It is for Natl Hispanic Heritage Month. I landed on this site because I was searching for a list of all the coutries whose people now living in the U.S. are considered "hispanic".
How do you feel about the term "hispanic heritage"? Not that I have any power to modify it, I was just curious.
Separately, and with all respect as a person not of any spanish-speaking descent (as far as I know), I would agree that "hispanic" is an American term broadly referring to all those in this country whose first language is spanish. It does seem odd to lump all of these cultures together, but that seems to be the easy and comforting thing to do. As a side comparison, the deaf population is categorized as "disabled" by the government. The deaf community considers themselves as having a unique language and culture. However, they are not a race and they do not have a common country or region of origin. Many of them feel this category belittles them yet they do benefit from the "Americans with Disabilities" Act.
I feel that the discussion of how a certain cultural group wants to be defined is an important one because it is a matter of respect.
Hispanic is not a race
I do not feel insulted by being called "Hispanic", however, I do not think that either "Hispanic" or "Latin" should be used as a race, because, the word Hispanic means "Spanish". Latin means a person either born in the Latin part of Europe (Spain, Portugal, France, Rumania and Italy)or born in Latin America.
Race deals with physical characteristics, the race concept only gets some value in medicine, because compatibility in transplant, blood transfusions, etc. If somebody needs a transplant the best option is to get a transplant from somebody from your family, second best option is your same racial ancestetry (there are more compatibility).
The word Hispanic denies the existence of every body that do not have Spanish blood, the word Latin American is has more amplitude (mas "amplio") covers every body borned in Latin America.
I read Ximena message regarding how the Argentineans, must feel about being classified as non-white. I am an Argentinean, honestely, we feel very confused when we have to declare "our race". It is not easy to see that other people are taking away your identity both your national identity as well as your ethnic identity by calling you something that you are not. Also, it is not easy to see that other people, are accusing you of lying or "trying to pass for something else" when you are telling the truth.
I agree with you Ximena, classifying Latino or Hispanic as a race is not only a serious mistake, it is also an intellectual fallacy, it is an act of ignorance and it is also racist. A person of African ancestetry is not Spanish. A person of indian ancestetry is not Spanish. In addition, there are also people like myself that do not have either Spanish surname, Indian or African heritage.
Latin America is a Continent populated by people of different races, ethnicities, nationalities, religion, etc.
In my own land, Argentina, more than 90% of the population are of European ancestry (white-Caucasians). Of these 90% of European ancestry, about 30% are carry Italian surname, 25% of Spanish surname and the remaining are "Saxons" and "Slavic" minorities (Germans, Irish, Welsh, Dutch, Scandinavian, polish, Croatians, etc.) the sum of the "Saxon" and "Slavic" "minorities" are higher than the sum of the two majorities of "Latinos" surnames (Spanish & Italians). This may result very confusing to people coming from Central America, the Caribbean and the USA, but it is the true.
Some people in the USA think that Latinos Americans are only of Indian, African or Spanish blood. However, Carlos Menem our ex president is of Arab (Syrian) ancestry, our actual president Nestor Kirchner is of German and Serbian ancestry. No one of them have Indian, black or Spanish blood, but they are both Argentineans and they feel Latin Americans.
There are also people of indigenous ancestry (Mapuches, Guaranies, Aymaras, etc.), but their number is very small. Argentina never had great pre Colombian Empires just as the Aztec, Mayan or Incas. Pre Colombian Argentina was populated by small groups of nomadic tribes, except in the North West. In addition, in my land of Argentina there are also people descended of non European emigrants, such as Coreans, Japanese and Arabs.
The reason why there are so many people of European ancestry living in Argentina, is that Spain did not really care about the territory of what is today Argentina during the Colonial times. Spain was more interested in what is today Cuba, Mexico and Peru. In addition, at that time of history, there were famine in what is today Germany and Ireland, so this hungry people started to move to Argentina knowing that there were pristine lands ready to be cultivated and that Spain was really not controlling the territory.
England invaded Argentina several times during our Colonial Time. Their soldier were not English but Irish, Welsh an Scottish, countries that were, also, invaded by England. Argentineans defeat the English and the Irish, Welsh and Scottish soldiers taken as prisoners decided to remain in Argentina to help the Argentineans to push away the Spaniards, under the condition that they will get a piece of land. Some of them married Argentineans women, some of them brought their family to live in Argentina, most of them never went back to the British Islands.
Once than Argentina got rid of both English and Spanish, business started to flourish until lates 1960's. At the end of the 1800's Argentina became a very rich country, so many more emigrants moved to my land. In 1920, of each 10 person living in Argentina, 8 were foreign born.
However, Argentineans of European ancestry, never developed the complex of "white supremacy" that is so common in English speaking countries. The European emigrant in Argentina, never had problems with "Indians" or people of native origin.
The Spanish did kill many Indians and some English business in accordance with some corrupt military. However, never the common people, never the common people born in Argentina of European ancestry had any kind of bad blood against Indians. As a matter of fact, Indians as well as gaucho, were and are, presently, glorified in Argentina. To us both cultures mean freedom. Our Indians were mostly nomads because they loved freedom, so did the gauchos.
We all Argentineans know that we are living in a Latin American soil that gave our ancestors food to eat when they were starving.
To us, Europe (or the place were our ancestors came from) is like our grand parents, the other Latinos Americans are like our brothers. We can take both in our lives, because both are part of our lives. One means to us our past, the other our future.
Argentina, is not the only country in the Continent that is populated by people that descendend from emigrants. The countries of Uruguay, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Venezuela, and other Sur Americans countries received great number of emigrants. Please, do not denied us, we are part of the Continent, even if our skin is ligher or darker than brown, even is our last name is not of Spanish or Portugues ancestetry.
Love to all. Hilda. Pd: As Ximena, I am proud of be born in Latin America. Please, do not call me "Hispanic", you can call me Latino Americana. Sorry for my English.
Answering the following message:
The folowing quote is from the the last issue. "Latinos have made tremendous economic gains in recent years, their economic status still leaves them well short of whites and far more vulnerable during downturns."
This is a racist remark. Latinos come in all colors and races. We are Caucasian, Central & South American Indian, Black, Asian, etc. How would the Argentineans feel about being classified as non-white or the blacks from Esmeraldas in Ecuador like being classified as Browns, for example? The term Latino refers to a widley diversified group with a common cultural heritage,languages and geographic background.We come in all colors and races and quite often, several mixtures thereof. We should never be classified by color or race. That is racist! Proud to be a Latina!(period)Ximena Espinoza
"Hispanic"
Get real! I'm so tired of hearing people whine about this word. If you don't like it "ni modo". Don't use it. Why do people try to read so much into it? (I'm sure several postings will follow about the history of the word--don't bother). I consider my self Latina, Hispana, & Mexican-American. Whatever term comes to mind at that moment. Really, it's not that big of a deal.
There's more important things to get indignant about!
My mom is from Spain and my dad from Puerto Rico.I don't see the big deal with being categorized as "Hispanic".The problem I DO see is that instead of spanish-speaking people bonding together, some feel as if they are superior to other Spanish-speaking culture.That's insane.Spanish people are no better than Puerto Ricans.Puerto Ricans are no better than Mexicans.Mexicans are no better than Ecuadorians.We ALL have a rich culture that we can be proud of.It's incredibly sad to see such racism within our own broad spanish-speaking races.
"SPANISH" IS NOT! "HISPANIC"
I am of Spanish decent and in no way or form relate to being Hispanic just because I speak Spanish. I consider myself European. Being Spanish is very different from being Puerto Rican, Dominican, etc.
Spain has a totally different way of life and culture. To just throw someone in a group and say well you’re Hispanic because you speak Spanish is crazy! It's like saying to Americans; well you’re English because you speak English!!! Yet both cultures are very different.
Re: "SPANISH" IS NOT! "HISPANIC"
[quote=mvazquez]I am not of Spanish decent and in no way or form relate to being Hispanic just because I speak Spanish. I consider myself European. Being Spanish is very different from being Puerto Rican, Dominican, etc.
Spain has a totally different way of life and culture. To just throw someone in a group and say well you’re Hispanic because you speak Spanish is crazy! It's like saying to Americans; well you’re English because you speak English!!! Yet both cultures are very different.[/quote]
reply to "Spanish is not Hispanic"
That is great that you consider yourself European because Spain is located in Europe, I think we all pretty much know that. What upsets me is how you express yourself in a negative way about the Hispanic race. Everyone is different because the word 'Hispanic' entails people from different countries in Latin America. The way you express yourself sounds like you think that Spanish people are better than Latin American ethnicities. Stop being Ethnocentric, there isn't a single ethnicity or nationality that is better than the other. Everyone can give their opinion without being ethnocentric or thinking your superior to others.
"Hispanic" is NOT a race
The term "Hispanic" is a misnomer and should be abolished altogether as it does nothing but create confusion and stereotypes. I do not see why the group of races that has been historically accepted for centuries cannot continue to be used in this country without alterations. For example, a Mexican or Guatemalan of mostly Aztec or Maya ancestry should be considered American Indian or perhaps Mestizo, but not "Hispanic". An Argentinean or Chilean of Spanish or Italian descent should be considered White just like his European ancestors. Similarly, a black person from say the Dominican Republic should be considered Black, period. I do not see the need for inventing a new "race" that includes people from all races. That makes absolutely no sense.
hispanic is a classification.
Why is it that people have to be classified into one racial group at all. If you are both from white and african ancestry then why should only the african ancestry be considered your "race". People from most of the spanish speaking islands are all mixed, but north america and others like yourself insist on putting people into one racial column only. I was glad when the term "hispanic" started to be added on US forms. I always classified myself as an "other". I am from both white spanish/european and black african ancestors. I look mixed and that is what I am, a mixture of both races. Not white or black, but a person from a spanish speaking country whose ancestors were from both sides of the atlantic.
You guys are crazy man
Look if you want to get technical even 40 percent of Southern Europeans from Italy to Spain have african, gypsie, iberian, morrocan, greek and muslim influence. So white isn't really even white. Southern Spain has tons of african and muslim and moorish influence. So even if your just spanish your mixed. But anyhow why does it matter what percentage of what makes a hispanic? Your genetic heritage doesn't make who you are. I mean all through history every culture or race has mixed with another. There is no pure blood line. Be proud of your race if you want but don't get so critical about it like it is important. It doesn't fucking matter you all are Americans. Why argue with eachother and fight eachother over something so stupid. Do you think bieng a certain ethcnicity makes you better than someone else? That attitude is what allowed slavery to go on for so long, the belief that your race or ethnicity gives you something over someone else. Don't have pride in your race. Have pride in your culture, your family, your history but not your freakin genetic features. We all do the same things in every culture there is love, death, war, fighting, poverty, rich, struggle, whatever. Our race doesn't make a difference. I am sick and tired of seeing sites with different ethnicities attacking eachother when the reason why they are fighting is because they are the exact same. You all need a look in the mirror and see your streangths and faults in yourself and not your race.
black hispanic?
my grandma and grand father were born in panama, my mom was born in the us and speaks spanish. So my heritage would be black with hispanic heritage?
Happy to belong and identify with a group
I am grateful to be a part of a great heritage and to be able to identify with a group. There are so many melted people that they do not know what they are and have no heritage to claim or feel apart of. Like my husband for instance; he is Caucasian and he cant really identify with any one race or culture except American. I am so proud and happy to be able to offer my kids something they can identify with. They know they are exactly 50% Mexican-American. They know that on their mother's side they have all Mexican-American relatives and we have a past, a culture, a special way about us. They know there is a specific language that their family speaks and I can share with them specifics about their ancestors' country and lives, etc. They know of the food, language, customs, and culture and that it is all a part of them. I am happy to mark the box called Hispanic with a check because I feel special in this melting pot of a country. There are too many people who cant and dont feel this way.
Linda
Clarification
I wish to make a correction... By a slip of mind I wrote that people born in Puerto Rico are first generation American... and although that is how I feel often times... the US Census defines all Puerto Ricans, no matter where they or their parents, or grandparents were born, in a Puerto Rican island in the Caribbean, or in the US mainland-- Puerto Ricans are third generation US born. Therefore, Puerto Ricans, by political definition, are never included in immigration related numbers nor considered in the foreign born census numbers. When they talk about foreign born Hispanics...Puerto Ricans are always excluded...
Hispanic as option
I am a 3rd generation American from a long Spanish line. I am very proud of my heritage and I am proud to be an American. I found that when I put "hispanic" on government job application I got the job because I am a hispanic female. I have also found that being from Spanish decent people look at me funny because I am lighter skinned. The first thing people say to me when they see "hispanic" is "Well, you don't look like a Mexican." I didn't think I was supposed to. It seems mainstream Americans think everyone who’s hispanic is Mexican. I have also found that if you indicate that you are hispanic some people assume that you are illiterate or incapable of anything except menial labor jobs. . That’s what is insulting to me.
So...
People who feel all Mexican's are illiterate and incapable of anything except menial labor are ignorant.
I am a 2nd Generation American with a lineage that starts in Spain and goes through Mexico and stops in America.
I am not ashamed of being called Mexican, Spanish, Hispanic, or American.
If checking the Hispanic box on an applications gives one of us an opportunity we would not normally get, more power to us. Our responsibility is to the rest of us "Hispanics" to set a good precedent or reputation as honest, hard working, and educated workers.
I believe was the idea behind the Affirmative Action program. Any race, culture, or individual can improve their status with an opportunity. What we do with that opportunity reflects us all.
Not all cubans are black,
Not all cubans are black, anyone who tries to say this should not be taken seriously. white cubans are meds, like andy garcia.
I'm constantly reading about claims that latin americans have significant amounts of
african ancestry.
If anyone wants to make such claims, I only ask that the person give proof on how this history (of slaves) affected present day latin americans make up. I prefer if they use an unbiased source without any agendas.
Like this one which claims puerto ricans are predominately mestizo:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop...
This site also has similiar information:
http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2003/vol7n50/PRGenePool.shtml
Another site (Which i can't find now) says almost the exact same thing but only says mtdna (mother's side) which was something like 61% 27% 12%...
I ask others who are also skeptical to also ask when running into this type of discussion. nothing I have read from them holds empirical evidence. If there is Any I would like to hear it.
The people who are saying there is a hispanic race have an obvious
agenda. For some reason,saying there is no hispanic race goes against their claim of african ancestry in all hispanics.
majority
not all cubans are black, but 80% in cuba are black.
Hispanic not a race
When Hispanic shows up as an option for race, they are mixing apples and oranges...I usually don't mark off anything because either choice would be incorrect (white non-hispanic or hispanic). We should be able to identify our race with no problem...It's pretty simple once you think about it.
LizaJennifer
I am sorry if you assumed that I was calling you a racist, I wasnt, never would, never will.
My comment was, my mother said that people, people in general, that look at their color, skin, hair, ect ,ect and label themselves or other people are racist. Not You LizaJennifer or your friends.
Looking for the worst in people is always the way it goes because it's just the nature of human civilization. Thats why our America the Beautiful, Land of the Free is so full of hatrid! Try looking for the best in people and accept human beings as they are! I do, and it makes my life alot fuller and easier to live!
God Bless you LizaJennifer ;)
Waldyf
HEY...are you attacking me or have you got me mixed up with LizaJennifer. I accept my heritage whether I am black white purple green, hispanic, african american, what ever it may be. But you cant and no one can condem me for the way I was raised, being racist wasnt part of my up bringing. I have good friends that are puerto rican and great friends that are black, I love to learn about their heritage and family ways. I am probably one of the most liberal, open minded people you will ever chat with. From the get go of this topic I have repeatedly said "accept who you are and be proud"
On a lighter note, I helped my sister fill out a complaint form from EEOC, and to my surprise under race there was a box for MEXICAN.
God Bless
Hispanic as a race?
The term Hispanic simply means to practice the language and culture of Spain.It does not describe race. Hispanidad began as a White culture that was brought to America and eventually imposed on the Native American population, as well as the Black slaves. To better explain this, one must consider that All Spaniards are Hispanic, but not all Hispanics are Spaniards. Hispanics can be of any race, and or ethnic heritage. In Puerto Rico you find people who are White of Spanish, French, Irish, Corsican and other European heritage. You also find a good many people of African, and or Native American heritage.
How do you feel when you see "Hispanic" as an option for race?
Hi,
When the 2000 census form was sent to me, I had no problem filling in the box for Hispanic. As far as I am concerned, it's a term used by non-Hispanic. I am first generation Dominican and I don't recall waking up in the morning and saying to myself, "Hey! I am Hispanic." The furthest concession I make for the word, although I don't think it's derogatory, is when it is used in a political context to paraphrase the name of a group of people from Spanish-speaking countries.
After filling in the "first" appropriate box, I didn't expect a second box. To make a long story short, I didn't fill in a second box. My skin is dark and this is America where:
"If you're white, you're alright
If you're brown (Hispanic, Hindu,and even Orientals), stick around
But if you're black....Get back
This is a quote from an acutal American folk song by Huddy Ledbetter, aka 'Leadbelly." He was singing about Washington, DC before desegregation!
In the year 2000, 7 million people filled in several boxes for racial categories. Race is not a biological fact; you don't die if you are "missing" a race, but life can get quite tricky when your other kidney is out of commission. Recent DNA studies have found that all dogs are descended from two or three breeds, even though our human eyes see SO MUCH VARIETY. If we stick to DNA, it is obvious that NO ONE should fill in so many boxes. How is it possible for the offspring of such a person to resemble members of any particular group, given the high variety of DNA combinations? However, we live in a continent that mixes up biology and national/ethnic pride at the drop of a hat.
Having a separate category for Hispanics didn't bother me until the Census bureau wrote me back and gave me a phone number to call. As I imagined myself telling this guy how every other group in the form is "just not my problem," and that for all my biological ancestors I just have a big "thank you, and good luck," I decided not to call him back. I have been categorized into all sorts of races, except for oriental, asummptions based simply on my "dusky" complexion. I was watching America's Most Wanted the other days and there was a story about a Central American girl who comitted a crime in Florida. During the report, a picture of her police record was put up on the screen. Playing by the ususal street science of race, "Yo, he be looking white, Yo!" or, "Ewe look lakk one of dem dare Meks skins (Mexicans)," she "looked" Hispanic. But, then again, I AM HISPANIC. When I play "Guess who's Hispanic?" I usually score. The point is that her police record contained the letter W, for white, in the box for race. In other words, no police department on this planet is going place people in categories where they will find themselves looking in the wrong places; and all because someone felt you didn't fit a certain category according to his interpretation. Just imagine if they would have written in "Oriental". Chop, chop.
Do I feel that Hispanic fits me? As long as I am living outside of Latin America? Yes. The -ic ending indicates similarity but not exact resemblance to something. Saliva contains hydrochloric acid, but I have yet to see it eat through the surface of plants. We are not a race, and we are under no obligation, nor any duty to look exactly like Spaniards. Being a descendant doesn't mean you have to look exactly like your ancestor. Try that physical resemblance test when there's an inheritance involved. Moreover, there's always the finality of DNA. Those guys from the Gypsy Kings? They're French. Yes, their ancestors migrated to Provence from Spain, but they are French nationals.
To conclude, what is the purpose of including Hispanic in the Census Form? The same purpose it has in counting Eskimoes and Aleutians--groups that can be placed within what we usually refer to as Asiatic based on physical features--as a separate category. The same purpose it has in counting Southeast Asians (really Indians and Pakistanis) as a separate group, even though they look like white people with black skin or, better yet, like very "swarthy" Hispanics. The purpose is to placate the usual xenophobia that has plagued the nation-state since its creation in the 18th century. In order to keep the "others" out, you have to count them. Since I refused to fill in a second box, I guess I wasn't counted. But I did vote!!!
LIZAJENNIFER
Ill leave you with this quote from Barbara Fields,a historian.
"Anyone who continues to believe in race as a physical attribute of individuals, despite the now commonplace disclaimers of biologists and geneticists, might as well also believe that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy are real, and that the earth stands still while the sun moves."
LIZAJENNIFER
We have different states of minds,i will tell you this,if black has a race existed it would be accepted globaly.Now there are certain countries that dont have "black" has a box to check on their census.Making distinctions between humans because of superficial looks is no better then making distinctions between us humans 'cause of our language.We're all humans at the end of the day,from the human race then come our "social groups" race should'nt exist at all,too much people now in days are taking the word "race" out of context.Once again terms like Black, White, Asian, and Latino are social groups, not genetically distinct branches of humankind.If people like yourself say Latino/Hispanic should'nt be a race,then all i got to say is that "Black" should'nt be a race neither.
hispanic as a race
My mother always picks "other" then pencils in Mexican American. She said she has never chose hispanic. On the other hand I have choosen hispanic.
She said it's all in the genes not the color of your skin. She said if you label a person by the color of their skin then your being racist!
I think I will take her wise advice and use "other" for the sake of arguement!
God Bless, I hope you figure topic out!
garyp35
What are you saying, I am a black hispanic? HMMMM I think I would have disagree. How can you determine what we are if you dont know where we came from or anything about our heritage?
My great Grandfather was Lebanese/Mexican, my great grandmother was Spanish/Mexican! ATHIE was their name. So where does the Black come from?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having black in my heritage, but I think that unless you have some kind of connection with my family tree then maybe you shouldnt guess. Did your guess come from the color of my grandfathers hair?
garyp35
I didn't say you were anything. I simply responded to your statement, don't you remember what you wrote:
"A Puerto rican is somewhat different from a Mexican American because they, Puerto Ricans, have african blood in them, as do Cubans. Mexicans do not so how can both be considered the same race."
I don't know what is in your family line of heritage, I simply responded to your statement that Mexicans do not have african blood in them. You should research your own family line and the history of the country you were born in and that of your parents before you make a statement. In fact, Lebanese people also has black african heritage and white french also. I didn't guess anything. I provided an educational link for you so that you can research the african heritage in Mexico. Once Again, a Race and heritage is two different things. Proudhispanic stated that anyone that classifies someones race is racist. That's ridiculous. Anyone that gets offended and doesn't acknowledge their race is racist against their own family. Culture and heritage is something to be proud of, whichever you choose to practice, whether it's your African Heritage or your Hispanic Heritage. I am very good friends with Puerto Ricans who refuse to acknowledge the spaniard/hispanic Heritage AND ONLY acknowledge their Taino Indian heritage and are deeply involved and hold Pow Wows throughout the United States. There are many people who are a combination of a very beautiful mixture of the four races: Whatever heritage lies in your ancestors, my ancestors and that of proudhispanic SHOULD not be denied, ever, it is their in our family line. My african heritage exists. Perhaps you don't have any african heritage in your family line - I don't know - maybe you do. Black africans were brought as slaves throughout the world including Mexico, Lebanon, United States, everywhere. Kinky hair combined with dark skin is from black africans. White, Black, Indian and Asian, it's to be acknowledge and something to be proud of - not denied. It's a fact their are different races and many different ethnicities throughout the world.
hispanic as race
Hispanic should not be considered a race. The word "Hispanic" was formally brought into American vanacular when the Reagan administration, Ronald Reagan, used it to classify as anyone of spanish speaking decent. It was a way to classify a segment of our population because there were so many different names, i.e., Columbian, Puerto Rico, etc. A Puerto rican is somewhat different from a Mexican American because they, Puerto Ricans, have african blood in them, as do Cubans. Mexicans do not so how can both be considered the same race.
To say that we are the same race is to trivialize our beautiful culture.
GARYP35
The assumption that all Puerto Ricans are of direct African decent is quite false. Yes the Spaniards brought slaves,and yes their are people with African lineage. That happened all over the Americas. What about all the slaves brought to north America, does that make all north Americans African? If do a little research before you post comments, you might sound like you know what you are talking about. Check out-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Puerto_Rico
DNA research from the University Of Puerto Rico finds that the majority of "interracial" breeding was between the Spanish colonizers and the indigenous people of the island. Besides, if you really want to get down to it we all originated from the continent of African anyway; Spanish, Norwegian, Afghanistan, what ever. What you are is the present culture in witch you live with in, not where your ancestor from 500 years ago migrated from.
GARYP35
There are Black (and mixed) Mexicans who are proud and only accept their Black - African Heritage and celebrate Kwanza while their are other Black (and mixed) Mexicans (ProudHispanic) whom only accept their Hispanic Heritage but deny that they are in fact black women. Bottom line - The Race is not Hispanic. There's a difference. If you do your research into different countries, whether in the MiddleEast, Europe, Latin America - anywhere you will find that there are only FOUR RACES and people whom are mixed of those races.
I agree with your passionate word that saying all hispanics are the same race is to trivialize our beautiful AND different cultures - there are many traditions passed on from different countries meanwhile the one similarity is that we speak spanish. It's not a race.
http://ex.matrix.msu.edu/africa/curriculum/lm15/stu_actone.html
San Lorenzo de los Negros (later named San Lorenzo Cerralvo and now called Yanga) is one example of an Afromestizo community that is still in existence today. - See the picture of Gaspar Yanga in Mexico.
The largest number of Africans arrived in the Mexican territory during the three hundred years of the colonial period, 1521-1821. It is estimated that approximately 200,000 Africans were brought into present-day Mexico during this period. Africans came as slaves, forced to leave their homes and work for the Spanish colonists on their sugar estates, in silver mines, and as domestic servants.
Two of the largest Afromestizo communities (that is, people of joint African and European heritage) in Mexico are located along the central coasts of the country in central Veracruz and in the states of Guerrero and Oaxaca in
the region called Costa Chica.
GARYP35
To say that we are the same race is to trivialize our beautiful culture. Well said and I agree with essence of your message - that Hispanics should be considered a race because it's a classification towards any one that speaks spanish. Please Remember that each family line is different and some Mexicans do have African blood, there is a member in this site that said she does, while others don't. In Puerto Rico, there are families that remained white and stayed with their race only from their ancestors of White Spaniards that settled there. My family is a mixture and I do have African blood in me.
Lizajennifer
it seems you have came in to the forum like a bull in a china shop and have broken a few heirlooms.
Maybe you didnt mean to insult anyone, but I think you have, I know I took your tone as an insult. Maybe some of us arent as educated on the Hispanic "race". If you agree with "edjuardoc" about sterotyping or racism, then why make such a big deal out of putting our heritage into YET ANOTHER CATEGORY, isnt our point here about "how we feel about using hispanic a race" in my opinion you have added insult to injury. My point is maybe it doesnt matter to any of us if we are black, white, indian or asian hispanics/mexicans, maybe it's just being hispanic that matters.
I visited my mother and aunt yesterday, and spoke of how you have broken our heritage down to another category. My aunt says you dont know what you our talking about. I have a tendency to believe she knows what she is talking about when it comes to our heritage, afterall she is the one who has been living with it for the last 69 years. God Bless
Proudhispanic
My Puerto Rican friends don't practic any Hispanic Culture or Hispanic Heritage, they only practice their Taino Indian culture and heritage and they hold Pow Wows throughout the United States. It's a very beautiful culture also. Let me make this clear to you, they don't DENY their African Heritage, they don't Deny their Hispanic Heritage and Culture - THEREFORE they are not in DENIAL of their RACE or IN DENIAL of their ANCESTORS - and they are NOT RACIST and neither am I. Different races in human beings exists and thousands of different cultures and religions and thousands of customs and not to mention - family heritage and traditions.
It is When you DENY your African Heritage as if it doesn't run through your blood or DENY any part of your ancestors. They lived and died as slaves. They were proud Africans and you should at the very least ACKNOWLEDGE that it runs through your blood, your hair, it's real.
If you choose to practice your Hispanic Heritage, that's how you were raised - but to just deny that any other heritage ever existed - Comb your hair, look at your photographs, ANCESTORS, look at your African family members and acknowledge it. Don't be racist against your own family line and deny it all together simply because your family past down traditions of only practicing Hispanic Culture and Heritage. Maybe it can be you to educate your own family and say a blessing for those that died for you to be here this very day. HOW DARE YOU CALL ME RACIST WHEN YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO BE INTELLECTUAL ABOUT THIS BUT JUST BLINDLY, IGNORANTLY, PARROTING WHAT HAS BEEN FED TO YOU ALL OF YOUR LIFE. Speak to Scholars, Research your history, FIND YOURSELF AND BE PROUD OF ALLLLLLLLLL OF YOUR HERITAGE.
Proud Hispanic
LisaJennifer says
"If you choose to practice your Hispanic Heritage, that's how you were raised - but to just deny that any other heritage ever existed - Comb your hair, look at your photographs, ANCESTORS, look at your African family members and acknowledge it."
Whoa, hold on just one minute. Who are you to tell Puerto Ricans to acknowledge African ancestry? Do you purport to know every Puerto Rican's ancestry? You seem Hell bent on an Afro-Rican view of things, while ignoring the very big White-European population of Puerto Rico. In the last census, 80% of Puerto Ricans listed their race as White. Is this 80% number correct? Although I am not so sure,those numbers seem to imply that there is none the less, a significant White population in Puerto Rico.
proudhispanic
I am proud of my heritage, my culture and my families accomplishments. There is a difference between the two: Please read the following with an open mind and intellect.
I answered the question: How do you feel when you see "Hispanic" as an option for race?
There is a different between the two.
HERITAGE: something passing from generation to generation: something such as a way of life or traditional culture that passes from one generation to the next in a social group.
RACE: Term historically used to describe a human population distinguishable from others based on shared biological traits. This high degree of genetic diversity exists within populations because individuals from different populations have always intermingled and mated with each other.
The term race is often misunderstood and misused. It is based on Genetic Makeup not culture or heritage.
It is often confused with ethnicity, an ambiguous term that refers mostly, though not exclusively, to cultural (non-biological) differences between groups.
People may also mistakenly use the term race to refer to a religion, culture, or nationality—as in the “Jewish race” or the “Italian race”— "Hispanic race" - whose members may or may not share a common biological/race ancestry.
In everyday language, the distinction between race and ethnicity has become blurred, and many people use the terms to mean the same thing.
how do you feel when you see hispanic as an option for race
I feel nada..less than nada..why be so touchy...don't you know who you are?
Latinos are a bit of every race...and I mean every race. that's what makes us who we are. A new race, We are cool like that.
El Rambo
Actually that's not true, that is also a stereotype.
There are latinos and latinas that have a very strong family line of being only one race. While their culture remains strong and wonderful, their family line happens to choose to remain one race. This is quite common among white Spaniards, Cubans and many black families and indians etc. There should be no stereotypes of any kind. I know myself and my family and I am proud.
LIZAJENNIFER
I never said "races" dont exist,in fact they do.They do exist but it was created by society.The so called races have no biological significance,the genetical differences between the so called races are about 3-4%.Which is a minimal number.Once again,no races exist except the human race(biologically speaking).All these talks about hispanic/latino not being a race is a hypocritical statement.What you got to understand is that black,asian,white and the so called races we're created by society itself!!!! just like the term hispanic/latino,they only difference i see is that we're considered a race simply by our language and where we come from.Now asians,white,blacks are considered has races 'cause some of them share similar superficial traits.
P.S The very few scientist that do believe in race has a biological significance usually turn out to be racist.Some of them actually believe that negroids are not intelligent has their caucasian counterparts,which to me is just plain out racism and stupidity.
eduardo_C
BIOLOGICALLY SPEAKING BIRDS ARE BIRDS AND CATS ARE CATS AND DOGS ARE DOGS BUT IT IS TRUE BIOLOGICALLY SPEAKING THAT THERE ARE DIFFERNT TYPES AND DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS........................
JUST AS HUMAN BEINGS HAVE DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS AND DIFFERENT FEATURES AND HAIR TEXTURES THIS IS DUE TO INTERBREEDING WHICH IS QUITE LOVELY TAKE A LOOK AT HALLE BERRY, JENNIFER LOPEZ, VANESSA WILLIAMS AND PENELOPE CRUZ. THE BEAUTY OF INHERITED MIXED RACES IS WONDERFUL YES WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS WITH MIXED RACES. IT IS THE IGNORANCE OF A BLACK WOMEN SAYING THAT SHE'S NOT BLACK SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE IS HISPANIC. OR A MEXICAN SAYING HE'S NOT WHITE SIMPLY BECAUSE HE'S MEXICAN ETC.
I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THERE IS A RACISM AND STEREOTYPES BECAUSE OF SKIN COLOR - YES THIS EXISTS IN SOCIETY AND THE VERY PEOPLE THAT ARE RACISM DENY THAT THEIR ANCESTORS ARE BLACK AND INDIAN. IN FACT, LAST WEEK A YOUNG WOMEN FROM ISRAEL WITH LIGHT EYES TAN SKIN AND THICK CURLY HAIR AND A YOUNG MAN FROM LEBANON WITH LIGHT BROWN EYES VERY THICK BLACK AND TANNER SKIN THEN MINE DENIED THAT HE HAD BLACK HERITAGE - IN FACT ANGRILY DENIED HIS INDIAN AND BLACK HERITAGE SAYING THAT HE IS WHITE. I AM SPEAKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE ONCE PEOPLE ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE INDEED MIXED WITH OTHER RACES WHEN THEY LOOK IN THE MIRROR WHEN THEY RESEARCH THEIR ANCESTORS THEIR COUNTRIES MAYBE THEN THIS RACISM WILL STOP. SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE WHITE HAVE THICKER KNAPPIER HAIR THEN I DO BUT WILL BE RACISTS TOWARDS SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK. IT'S RIDICULOUS AND WRONG. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO TAKE OFFENSE BY CLASSIFICATIONS - YES WE ARE HUMANS BUT WE HAVE DIFFERENCES AND SIMILARITIES. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE HAVE HOPE.
LIZAJENNIFER
I look in the mirror everyday! I got into this discussion to speak out not be chastized or ridiculed by you. I dont care whether my grandfather was, a black, white, indian, or asian mexican, it all boils down to he was, he is deceased now a proud mexican man.
But if it will make you happy to put him into yet another category then so be it, he was dark skinned, black coarse hair, tiny little man with a deep acccent. Hey I can go a step further, my cousin also mexican is blond with green eyes, both her parents my aunt and uncle, and my grandfathers sister, where both dark haired, dark skinned mexicans, so Lizajennifer, what category is she in, hmmmm let me guess WHITE. Where did she get her mixture from, I wonder if she looks in the mirror!
Jackie Hofmann
Jackie Hofmann
I never meant to ridicule anyone, I would never do that. But if your grandfather was black and family members are black be proud of that. If you are black, be proud of that. You and your family members should be proud of being black hispanics or white hispanics or mixed. Acknowledge that you are black and be proud. It's black history month for ALL black People from ALL nationalities and ALL backgrounds. This is a celebration for my history also.
Jackie Hofmann
I never meant to ridicule anyone, I would never do that. But if your grandfather was black and family members are black be proud of that. If you are black, be proud of that. You and your family members should be proud of being black hispanics or white hispanics or mixed. Acknowledge that you are black and be proud. It's black history month for ALL black People from ALL nationalities and ALL backgrounds. This is a celebration for my history also.